The Wicked Jar and Imprisoning Demons, Ghosts & Spirits

The Apotropaic spell "The Wicked Jar" (MuVi Gen, RoP:Infernal, page 122) changes a demons o it is bound to a physical object such as hollowed jar or pot made of clay and sealed.

The description states the effect is similar to the Goetic Art of Binding and the demon becames a part of the object for as long as the spell is active - a lesser device with a renewing effect can thus hold a demon forever.

If so, does it trap the demon within, unable to affect the outside world?
(Binding allows the demon to still affect the outside world, including the Binder, although if the binder holds the object, it grants him MR equal to the demon's Might making it difficult for the demon to directly affect him).

Does the Jar then act as an Arcane Connection to the demon (as time goes by increasing in strength perhaps to "Indefinite" +4) , for the purposes of Summoning it back using either the Goetic Arts or Hermetic magic similar to "Adjuration of the Hell-Sworn Spirit" (RoP:Infernal, page 122 also) but without requiring the demon's True Name.?

The Tremere spell "Voices from Hollow Spaces" (ReMe 35, HoH:TL, page 140) would seem to have a similar effect for ghosts, although Tremere have other ways of creating Arcane Connections to ghosts and spirits (as well as named animals and persons) if they have the Leadworker Virtue.

The two spells seem to be achieving similar effects through different means, although I understand Binding seems to have a different effect to what is intended by this spell IIRC.



(sorry for poor etiquette)


I don't know that it would ever increase to a +4 connection, but I would definatly have it increase to levels similar to "favorite clothing", +2, possibly up to a +3 depending on how long it was trapped.

Well, lets look at it by the list...(paraphrased)

Hours...air from a specific place...nope
--skin shed...---nope,
---water from a moving body of water.....nope

Days...A freq used tool or item of clothing.. :slight_smile:
That looks pretty good...

Weeks... Lesser enchanted...made by target... Nope

Months... Strand of hair, favorite tool or item, wood from a place,Feather from a bird, sacle from a reptile...nope, nope etd

Invested device, rock or metal from a specific place, blood or lock of hair, group of feathers, group of scales... again...nope

Decades..body part...nope
Indefinate... familiar, magus, talisman, fixed AC....nope, none of these.

So really the only one that looks like it might work...
Days...a frequently used tool or item of clothing.

I might give a +1 for a sympathetic connection as well...

A demon trapped by 'The Wicked Jar' would, based on the comparison to the Art of Binding, still be able to use its powers at will. Of course, a wise hermetic magus would not only bind the demon in a jar, but place the jar inside a circular ward against demons. In a cave accessible only through Terram magic or teleportation.
If you're going to go to the trouble to bind a demon, might as well go all-out. :slight_smile:

As for whether its an arcane connection... I would argue that it's not, in that things generally aren't connections to demons and when such connections are magically created (as with one of the apotropaic spells) they provide no penetration bonus, but if you have a demon trapped in a container, you have all the time in the world to get it to tell you its True Name, through torture or some other means.

Another option might be to use an arcane connection to the container itself. Since the binding makes the demon 'part' of the container, you could use a Target: Part spell and have your penetration boosted by the arcane connection in that manner.

If you're just looking for a use for a bound demon... you could always reach some sort of bargain, offering to destroy the container and free it afterward. I don't advise bargaining with demons, but if your request is sinful enough, some demons (especially Corrupters) might go along with it.

I've also found an interesting use for The Wicked Jar in one of my sagas. Using the rules in Mystery Cults for enchanted tattoos and the apotropaic magic in The Infernal, a Wicked Jar enchantment was created on a person, to use the longevity-granting benefits of Binding. Perhaps unwise, and because the bound spirit inflicts its personality traits on the individual and still has free use of its powers, not likely to replace longevity rituals any time soon...
Still powered up the companion it was used on quite a bit. He now has magic resistance and longevity from the binding, and is beginning to learn the might-point-based supernatural powers from it as well.

I agree, but I would have thought that over time, such an object might develop an affinity with the demon/entity itself - like clothes or treasured possessions or chains or manacles would...

The Binding explanation does state that the Art makes the demon/spirit Part of the object, so this might work but my understanding is that is not normally possible to target a demon bound to an object or person without an Arcane Connection to that demon/spirit.

It's interesting to speculate whether a person who has a demon/spirit bound within has an Arcane Connection to the bound demon (and vice versa) and whether such a connection is immediate or develops over time as the two entities become associated as "one" - the bleeding over of personalities and ability to gain powers from a bound spirit suggest that this should be possible to me.

Actually the more I think about it, the more sensible option would be to create the object with a Fixed Arcane Connection to the demon/spirit already incorporated into it, which varies in difficulty depending on the type of spirit to be bound.

Yes, I've noted this before - I wrote up an NPC character for Niall's Sanctum Hermeticum Revisited site before the release of HOH:Societas that essentially has a Auram aligned Jinn bound to his person, granting him similar abilities.

See: ... kamil.html



Which is why I figured it would be similar to favorite clothes, +2...they are both something you are in regular contact with, in some ways it could be considered an invested device which is why a +3 may also be appropriate.
Just make a ruling for your group and go with it