Theoretical Maximum Age of a Magus?

Also master might stripping spell with the Magic Resistance ability.

Really depends on how your group plays Might stripper spells. Though its effects on a Magus with Might should be more inline with how your group plays its effect on an Animal of Virtue (with Might) than something like a ghost. If your group plays it that the spells just remove the Might Points temporarily for something like a Raven of Virtue without killing it or making it mundane, then the same should be true of their effect on a Magus with Might.

The closest to killing that groups I have played with use was it "banishing" insubstantial beings like ghost and demons. Demons back to hell and ghost go on to where ever they would have when they died, unless they have some connection powerful enough to overrule that and pull them back.

Could bind a high might familiar and use that creatures might for MR. . .

Doesn't that make you an unchanging being, with all of the baggage that that status entails?

That is the point of having an extremely low Might. Since you reduce XP gains by Might (outside of special circumstances), then only having a might of 1 or 2 would slightly slow but not stop character improvement.

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Hmmm.... I see where I went wrong. I was thinking of the immortal magus from TMRE, but a Might score doesn't actually make one immortal. So, such a magus would eventually be out of the picture due to violence or accident, but probably in a time frame that exceeds a typical saga.

The immortal from having Might (becoming a Magic Human) and the immortal from having an Immortal effect are similar in many ways. Not having to worry about warping and aging, as well as not needing to eat, drink, or breath. Though the ones with just Might will not recover Might Points if they are not eating, drinking, or breathing.

The big differences are that Immortal Beings are mostly unchanging, making it both extremely hard to harm them long term as well as for them to improve. Though one who has changed through a method like the Great Elixir can actually still be killed. It is just a heck of a lot harder to do, since after a season they will fully heal with 'narry a mark from even the most horrid injuries that do not kill them (with no roll required). That includes regrowing limbs, something that would not heal without magic on someone with just Might.

EDIT: My character has actually looked into how to become a Drowned Man to become "immortal", though it would be the Magic Human type rather than the Immortality from the methods in TMRE. You would become a "Transformed Human" and start with Might: 0. Much like having a MR 0 is better than having no MR at all, having a Might 0 is much better than having no Might at all.

If I remember correctly, such a being needs to be under the effect of a 4th magnitude spell or an aura of reasonable strength for something like a season per year. Otherwise, they go the way of all things. Or is it they drop back into mundanity? I forget, and I don't have the time to go looking. I was up on all of this back when I was playing a Bjornaer trying to become a great beast.

Here come some of the promised follow-up questions, folks.

All pretty much on par with 4th ed. and my own thoughts if you'd typed Twilight Points most places you typed Warping.

So, then the Grand Finale for a magus is at 12 Warping points in 5th? As opposed to 24 in 4th?

Thank you for that insight! However, now I have to factor in how do we get high enough levels in texts to get magi who can get to those lab totals? If they're in a business of selling Longevity, they aren't going to write books on Arts for free instead, are they?

A comment on this one rather than a question. I get the feeling (from discussion here and text in the couple of ArM5 PDFs I have) that a large part of 5th ed.'s design ethic was decreasing the maximum power level of magi. As I recall, guideline changes made certain spells (or certain Target/Form combos) more difficult, whether the change was to Target size or another parameter.

Do any of you who transitioned from 4th ed. to 5th ed. while actively playing recall any feeling of that in the early stages?

Twilight points and warping score/points work completely differently. First off, you accumulate warping points that behave like xp for your warping score. You accrue these warping points from a variety of things like being under the influence of long term magical effects, magical botches which also may result in twilight and gaining even more warping points, etc. After you have 5 warping pts your warping score is 1, the function is 5 * new score in warping points to go from old score to new score. So a 10 warping score is a lot of warping points. When you get to a warping score of 10 or more and undergo twilight you are nearly guaranteed that it is final twilight but you might get extremely lucky and merely be in twilight for years but if you limit yourself from risky magical behaviors you can avoid twilight.

Yes, there are some significant differences with 5th ed but most guidelines were written to keep spell levels about the same so I don’t think that should be a huge reason to avoid switching from 4th. I am sure there are some spells that are significantly different in level from 4th to 5th but those are definitely the minority and probably mostly in the “no low level instant death spells” category. My group that switched from 4th to 5th after one adventure found the rules of 5th to be much better and we didn’t see combats that were all about a race to avoid fatiguing yourself to unconsciousness.

Fatigue in combat has not been an issue in our modern setting urban fantasy hack of ArM4 to date:)

Thanks for going into a bit of depth on the differences in Twilight and warping.

We'll probably be sticking with 4th, it's what we know (and have the most hard copies of).

The character with the longest potential lifespan (assuming we are avoiding the Immortality path), that I've designed at any rate, is not a Magus, but rather of a Sahir. I realize it's not exactly on par with the question, but the through exercise is well on theme.

The key lies in their Sahir's unique Magical Defenses. Specifically the Solomonic Alchemy and Physic, both of which provide a bonus to your aging rolls, and they are specifically noted to stack. Thus, for example, a Sahir with Solomonic Alchemy and Physic, both at the score of 6 (keep in mind, they are Accelerated Abilities), has an effective Longevity bonus of -4, and these don't inflict any warping for an ongoing magical effect. So:

Take Strong Faerie Blood, starts making aging rolls at 50 and you got an inherent -3 bonus.
Take Affinities in both Solomonic Alchemy and Solomonic Physic.
Take Strong Magical Defenses Virtue (Hedge Magic Revised, doubles all Magical Defense bonuses)
Take Affinity in Medicine (and level it to the score of 7).
Take Unaging

So, lets assume you fulfilled all these, and now got both Alchemy and Physic at score 21 each.

Strong Faerie Blood: -3
Alchemy: -10
Physic: -10
Medicine Regimen: -3
Current total: -26
All of this without any warping or actual Longevity Rituals. If you can convince a Hermetic or some other tradition to provide you with one, then you're golden. Considering the rules for aging, you can stack a second one ontop, providing that it affects Living Conditions Modifier specifically, such as the Learned Magician Amulets (thus making the two bonuses compatible in my eyes). Learned Magician's chapter I believe emphasizes that Living Conditions Modifiers cannot surpass +10. Though of course, using two sources of longevity like this would probably be a measure.

Adjusted total -36 (Longevity Ritual variable, lets say -8, so -44 total)

And so, we have a character who, providing disease or other circumstances don't interfear, can live on for centuries.

And if female use her own body for fertility magic for the entire time...

Silly thing, but Medicine 7 = 140 xp ~ 93 xp before affinity.
Compare to 75 xp for Medicine 5 + Puissant Medicine.
That's more than 30 seasons of rounding half points up.

Unless you plan on a Puissant initiation later on, Affinity to an ability is not the best deal.

Sure, either works. Mostly took it for emphasis on Medicine.

level 11 is the breaking point between the two, but affinity has to be there from the start to get full benefit from it, while puissance can be added at any time.

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I suppose I should clarify my motive in asking the question in the first place.

My goal is not to figure out how to make a nigh-immortal magus character. My goal is to figure out the likely ages of the Order's most elderly (and therefore most knowledgeable) magi for a few generations back.

From that, I can figure out the maximum levels of texts on Arts and Knowledges likely to be available in our saga. It will also likely give me an idea of how many magic items we might find "in the wild", and what their Penetration might be where applicable.

Still, thanks to everyone for your input thus far! I appreciate it and look forward to reading more.

Not directly relevant, but I often play with "LR for Magi are twice as effective than for mundanes" being a relatively recent breakthrough (e.g. in the last 100 to 150 years) as this might explain the lack of very very old Magi


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Are you wanting this for 4th or 5th edition? Because they are not even remotely the same in how they are calculated.

5th: This is for calculating the oldish range of Magi, not the very oldest that are possible. Figure out a few things related to your Saga. From those you should be able to work out what the most elderly Magi in your Saga are. Or just use the RAW 120~140 with eldest in the mid to late 100s.

  • What is the rate of Warping Point gain other than the LR? RAW is around ~2 for Magi and ~1 for long lived/cautious Magi, though that might be high for your Saga. With that you get (275/(#+1))+35, which is the age that your long lived Magi will hit Warping 10. [While can live with Warping 10+, chances rapidly drop and they are much less active.]

  • What is the average "high level" LR in your Saga? If you assume fairly average additional bonuses to the Aging Roll (+2 Lifestyle, another +3 from Familiar/Lab Health/Healthy Features) then double the average high level LR is the age that they will fail. [The range is +/- 50, though the - range can be much larger if the roll explodes. We are trying to simplify things since this is an annual roll.]

With those figured out, you have two possible caps for your Saga which combined give you the soft (lowest number) and hard (highest number) age cap for all but the exceptional Magi.

We still use 4th, yes.