One of my players has just developed a spell for tossing a tree around. It is a surprisingly low level spell. Anyway, I am interested in what the great minds of the forum think about how much damage would a tree cause. The spell can affect up to a large tree (+2 size modifiers) and toss it to any unsuspecting dudes (or building, for that matter) standing nearby.
How much damage would that cause? +20? That is a rough estimate of mine, but a boulder is +21 IIRC. Given that wood has a lower hardness (denseness?) than stone, according to Aristotle the tree should do LESS damage, right? (and a steel boulder MORE damage than a stone one) (I might have messed that one up, BTW)
I would like to hear other opinions on this matter Thx!
How much damage would cause a thrown tree?
We also appreciat suggestions for the spell name, since "throw tree" does not sound very cool as a spell name
OK, I would go with the +21 and any difference between "smashing damage" and "stabbing damage" (from broken branches and the like) is left in your ability to describe the carnage.
You might vary it by size. Something the size of a 7' spruce or fir could be as low as +5 (I grew up helping on a Christmas tree farm, so I speak from painful experience here -- yes, we did throw trees from the truck) and a 200 year old oak tree should turn the successfully targeted enemy into a fine paste spread evenly over 2 foot wide 20 foot long streak.
Damage: I would base the damage off the RAW. Spells typically do Base Level + 5 in damage (see Creo Ignem), so a spell that is R: Voice D: Mom T: Ind @ base 10 would be a 20th level spell (Base 10 + 2 for voice) that does +15 damage. I would also make the caster roll Perception + Finesse as an attack roll to hit the target. I assume here also that if the player is unhappy with the damage, he can increase the base of the spell to effect a larger tree, thus increasing the base damage. Also, if the caster only has size +1 trees available, then the damage would drop to the base level of the spell needed to move that size of tree. So if a size +1 tree can be thrown at Base level 5, it would do +10 damage.
Actually the spell is just a ReHe15 spell. Base 3 (control an ammount of wood). +2 voice +2 size (a tree 100 paces in every direction), so it can throw a sequoia if they were in Europe.
Not 100 paces in every direction...this would be one million times the mass of a base Individual of Herbam, and two size modifiers allows only for 100 times the mass. This equates to about 4.6 paces in each direction, or a tree which has a 4 pace diameter trunk and is 8 paces high, and so forth. Roughly Size +6.
A thrown tree should be able to do more damage than one 'just' falling over, by ensuring higher impact speed. Even this should apply in mythic Physics. Besides the higher spells levels needed to throw the tree, rather than topple it over, accounts for the higher damage - so it seems balanced.
If a mundane tree is pulled from the ground (this ought to cost a magnitude or two!) and tossed, it should be AImed and non-Resisted, using ReHe. If you simply create a huge tree trunk and toss it, lasting only as momentarily as a ball of fire, it should be Creo, and follow the pattern for other missile type spells. The level of spell is proportional with the size of the tree.
May I suggest to the base 5 guideline: "Control an entire plant, moving it around as you direct, and it need not remain rooted" (emphasis mine). That puts the spell at a much more sensible 25. Also, D:Mom might not be enough. To quickly move a large tree, I'd ask for an additional +1mag "just because I'm the SG". That puts the spell at 30, which is a sensible level for a spell that will kill the hapless target.
Remember, if you're levitating the tree above the target and letting go, it bypasses MR and needs targeting. I'd call for a D:Conc spell then. If you're "just" moving it to the target (telekinesis), it can be resisted but D:Mom would be okay.
Nope, the guideline is the level 3 one. We checked. She (well, the character is Severin, but the player is Laura,s o forget the mix and martch of genres here) is not controlling the plant. Controlling the plant is making it bend its leaves and branches, sprout flowers et al. She is just grabbing it and throwing it towards someone or something. Much more basic control required. The level 3 guideline works OK for that. Check Piercing shaft of wood, Acorns for Fun or Tangle of Wood & Thorns. The only diference her eis that the thrown item is larger, but the basic control is the same: grab a piece of wood and throw it around.
However, the argument about uprooting it will be looked at. I (as the generally final SG) had not thought about that detail. Thx
For me, there is a difference between "control an amount of wood" and "control an entire plant". I'm not a native speaker, so that may be the problem. Controlling (moving) an entire tree, even a dead one, is base 5 in my saga. Controlling just a wooden plank, for example, is base 3.
I suggest you look at the description of the spells that use the base 3 and 5 Do it for the Terram spells as well. It is quite clear when you do that that it should be base 3. Base 5 is about a more detailed control, not a BIGGER amount of material being moved around. The size modifiers are what take care of the amount of Herbam being moved. Moving stuff around is only base 3 for Herbam spells.
BASE 3: Dance of the staves, Strike of the angered branch, Tangle of wood and thorns, Coils of the entangling plants
BASE 5: Lord of the Trees, Freeing the striding tree, Calling the council of the trees
As you can see, what you are doing with Base 5 is MUCH BIGGER/precise than what you do with base 3. You are basically controlling a whole tree to move around as you direct, not throwing it. Base 3 is a rougher control by far. It is the level of control that Laura is getting for her magus here. She requires size modifiers, but the tree is only being thrown by the force of magic, not doing funky stuff like moving its branches around to attack or displacing itself like Trebeard.
I suggest you look at the description of the spells that use the base 3 and 5 Do it for the Terram spells as well. It is quite clear when you do that that it should be base 3. Base 5 is about a more detailed control, not a BIGGER amount of material being moved around. The size modifiers are what take care of the amount of Herbam being moved. Moving stuff around is only base 3 for Herbam spells.
BASE 3: Dance of the staves, Strike of the angered branch, Tangle of wood and thorns, Coils of the entangling plants
BASE 5: Lord of the Trees, Freeing the striding tree, Calling the council of the trees
As you can see, what you are doing with Base 5 is MUCH BIGGER/precise than what you do with base 3. You are basically controlling a whole tree to move around as you direct, not throwing it. Base 3 is a rougher control by far. It is the level of control that Laura is getting for her magus here. She requires size modifiers, but the tree is only being thrown by the force of magic
It could be a Cr(Re)Te spell for the same level (creo plant is base 1) but it is way LESS cool to create the tree than to simply uproot and throw an existing tree, so that is what she decided to do
There are more than a dozen spell just in the core book that render a guy out of combat at way lower levels than 30. In the supplements, they are simply plentiful.
Thx!
(lame joke, I know)