TMRE Daimon Familiar question (revised)

[caribet]

Elliot (cunningrat at gmail dot com) posted an good question to the Berklist, which I'll re-post here with my answer.

@Elliot

I've got a question about the virtue that lets you bind an Aspect of a Daimon as a familiar. (Serf's Parma applies: my books are at home, but it's listed in the Theurgy section).

The virtue says that it functions identically to the Spirit Familiar/Parhedros virtue. The problem is that Daimons have special rules for learning. So, when you bind a single Aspect of a Daimon as a familiar, does that mean that your familiar cannot learn? If the particular Aspect that has been commanded to dance attendance on you is recalled, it would be replaced with another Aspect... what happens to powers that have been invested in the bond?

there's a good question - which we didn't answer in TMRE

after posting the original answer, CJ, David & I discussed the ideas... the conclusion is that TMRE is right, and no errata are needed, but it could do with clarification...

[caribet]

A Daimon's Aspect really is fixed and unchanging, though it does retain memories of events. It can return to the Daimon at any time (good thing, becuase it doesn't otherwise recover Might or Wounds), but the magus's Familiar Pact is actually with the Daimon, which (being agreeable to him) will send another Aspect.

The Bond is the location of the enchantments between magus and familair, and these remain in-place even if you swap Aspects... indeed "your" Aspect can split and send another Aspect to appear elsewhere (actually ther Daimon sends it for you), and all of "your" Aspects will share the Bond enchantments and qualities.

It does mean you can't teach the Familiar abilities or Arts or spells, not does it gain/keep XP - but equally others can't damage the Familiar permanently (you just get a replacement Aspect). If it's wounded, send it back and another spirit appears unwounded.

[Don't forget the limits on where and how often an Aspect can be sent!]

If you Ascend yourself, then unfortuantely the Aspects will all re-merge with their parent Daimon, as they always do when they return the to Hall of Heroes. You don't get an Ascended Familiar - but you do get an Ally in the HoH.

[Wanderer]

@caribet

It does mean you can't teach the Familiar abilities or Arts or spells, not does it gain/keep XP - but equally others can't damage the Familiar permanently (you just get a replacement Aspect). If it's wounded, send it back and another spirit appears unwounded.

Hmm, couldn't one just use a modified version of the ritual to summon the Daimon in the first place, to feed vis to the Daimon, which it could use to learn the abilities, Arts and spells you want ? After all, thanks to the Daimonic Familiar/Mage bond, a permanent mystic link of sorts does exist between the two. And once the Daimon has got the new lore, it could just re-call the "outdated" Aspect, and send the "improved" one. It would be a mutually-beneficial relationship for both parties, and would make Daimons even more interested to have Aspect Familiar around. It's a idea that just hit me, so I've not yet thought about the details of the ritual, but I think it should be well within the spirit of the rules. Maybe one could ignore the necessity of overcoming the Daimon's MR for contact rituals that target the parent of your Daimonic familiar.

[caribet]

@Wanderer

@caribet

It does mean you can't teach the Familiar abilities or Arts or spells, not does it gain/keep XP - but equally others can't damage the Familiar permanently (you just get a replacement Aspect). If it's wounded, send it back and another spirit appears unwounded.

Hmm, couldn't one just use a modified version of the ritual to summon the Daimon in the first place, to feed vis to the Daimon, which it could use to learn the abilities, Arts and spells you want ? After all, thanks to the Daimonic Familiar/Mage bond, a permanent mystic link of sorts does exist between the two. And once the Daimon has got the new lore, it could just re-call the "outdated" Aspect, and send the "improved" one. It would be a mutually-beneficial relationship for both parties, and would make Daimons even more interested to have Aspect Familiar around. It's a idea that just hit me, so I've not yet thought about the details of the ritual, but I think it should be well within the spirit of the rules. Maybe one could ignore the necessity of overcoming the Daimon's MR for contact rituals that target the parent of your Daimonic familiar.

"feeding" the daimon and re-summoning the Aspect is excellent - and all within the rules.

Ignoring the Daimon's MR ... technically I think it can choose to waive its MR, just like any other being - just mostly spirits/people don't trust others with their inner self. (OTOH you've shown you can overcome the mR anyway...)

[Wanderer]

@caribet

Ignoring the Daimon's MR ... technically I think it can choose to waive its MR, just like any other being - just mostly spirits/people don't trust others with their inner self. (OTOH you've shown you can overcome the mR anyway...)

Yes, exactly, and the mage has already shown he hasn't abused that opportunity and his willingness to enter a long-term mutually-beneficial relationship with the Daimon.