TMRE: Need details of a couple Mysteries

Could anyone with the book provide me the details on Hermetic Geometry and Hermetic Theurgy?

Thanks so much if you would. :slight_smile:

You mean post the entire chapters?
I really would prefer if non one does that.
Do you have more specific questions?

I doubt they entail entire chapters. sections perhaps.

They could send it to me by PM if posting would offend.

As the preview shows, Hermetic Theurgy is an entire chapter (14 pages) and Hermetic Geometry a section (4 pages); unless you mean the Hermetic Theurgy virtue proper, but it's pretty tied up to all of the rest of the chapter. BTW, The Mysteries is now available as a PDF, so you can read all about it for 15$ :wink:

At any rate, I could provide you with a brisk summary later today but it would really help to know why you're interested if you're to find it useful.

I only want to know about the Virtues and what their corresponding abilities (if any) involve. I certainly don't want 14 pages to wade through. I want to know about these for a character concept Im working on to see if they are in line with the goal I am designing him towards. If I didnt think it would be helpful to know then I wouldnt have asked. :wink:

If I had either the money or a credit card I would certainly buy the book.

Find it a bit odd that you are demanding me to explain myself YR7, do you have some vested interest in these particular Mysteries or something?

I'm with Yr7 , I wouldn't try to provide someone a large chunk of a published and commercially available product as it seems to me to be both borderline legal and rude to those who worked to produce the material (Unless the legal rights are those of Micro$oft whose rights I am less concerned about)

I didnt think asking for details of a couple of Virtues would be beyond the scope of much of what is freely shared in here.

Pardon me for asking then.

Sorry I think my reply was overly rude , I apologise for the offense

Not offended, more taken aback by your forcefulness :wink:

Must be the Mariella in you! :smiley:

I'm in a bit of a prickly mood today, sorry if I annoyed you. I just didn't want to wade through 14 pages worth of explanations myself, I wanted to know what is it precisely you want to know so I could tell you just that.

And I still don't... what's the character? What's the goal? I don't have anything to work here with :confused:

I'll give you a "this is what your magus would be into" summary, then, alright?

Hermetic Geometry is the simpler one. Essentially, you'll be able to affect things you can't see but can calculate their precise direction in a straight line from you; you must still sense the target in some way, so it isn't all that useful. You can simply affect the target, or trace out Circles and Rings from afar. In addition, you gain bonuses when tracing out geometric patterns in spellcasting, especially using Ceremonial Casting (you can use it with formulaic spells).

Hermetic Theurgy is more complicated. Thematically, you strike pacts with Magical spirits that do the magic instead of you casting the spells directly. Mechanically, you get to cast formulaic (non-Ritual) spells pretty much as usual but with Slow Caster and Flexible Formulaic Magic, except that the penetration is fixed in inventing the spell much like for magic items and you get to add some bonuses to your lab totals for inventing the spell. You can also cast spontaneous effects by casting formulaic spells to call upon the spirits, so you can cast spontaneous magic with less fatigue. But all this requires picking up lots of formulaic spells, whose levels and effectiveness won't change unless you invent new ones. Finally, you can also try to summon daimons, Magical spirits from which you can gain, if you convince the SG, virtually anything - their powers are non-Hermetic; you'll probably only get a few strange non-Hermetic and general services like teaching, information, dispelling a curse, or so on.

Does this help you?

YR7 got it right. I will add that the main usefulness of Hermetic Theurgy, besides allowing a spirit companion backup that can allow to cast double the amount of spontaneous magic through it, in most theurgic Mystery Cults, is to be the prerequisite or stepping stone to develop the nifty Names of Power and Invocation Magic Virtues. Combined, these Virtues allow the maga to develop spell-like insight about aspects of the great powers of the spirit world (think pagan gods) that be used as Mu Vi powers to grant massive bonuses to casting totals. Other related virtues on the same path allow to have a spirit familiar, enchant your own body and/or spirit as a talisman, and even ascend as a magical spirit demigod.

Sorry you are in a prickly mood today. Sorry too that, not having the book nor having ever seen the table of contents I didnt appreciate that these Mysteries were anything more than the usual page-page 1/2 of explanation as per every other book I have.

Thanks so much though for the summaries. The purpose was to see if they fit with my evolving character conceptualisation for the online Slieve League game here. Hermetic Geometry doesn't sound as useful as I had thought, but Theurgy might be a possibility, still not 100% sure. I'll have to borrow a friend's book when next I see him.

Thanks again!

I definitely recommend reading The Mysteries. It's very good, or at least I like it a lot. The only problem with reading it is that you're ruining the SG's ability to use things straight from it :confused:

No problem.

Hmm I don't see it as ruining the SG's ability to use things from it. What a player may know and what his character would know should be and are two distinct things for any mature roleplayer.

For the SG the way it is brought into a story is something even the player cannot glean from simply being familiar with the mechanics described in the book. Besides, I am of the school which believes that the informed player has much more fun and appreciation for the story than the one kept in the dark by interdictions against reading books (specific tribunal books aside).

From my understanding TMRE is simply a book of possible paths open to any magus and therefore should be as unrestricted as any of the House books or the core rules themselves.

Wanderer, thanks to you as well for the further elaboration on Theurgy. It sounds more in line with my conceptual path.

Oh, there is definitely that too. It's a tradeoff - you get less surprised by cool and unexpected ideas, but you can appreciate the game more and work better with the SG to have your fun.

It's more than just mechanical paths, though. It's mystical paths. I think it's very cool for the player to read them and work with the SG to incorporate what they want, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that it will take a bit of the surprise away, especially in regards to enemy groups the SG might want to use.

To complete the quick-snap resume of Theurgy, I forgot to mention that there are other Virtues this most nifty and flavorful school of magical thought developed, are the ones that allow to discover and weave the secret names of any supernatural creature in a spell to punch a big hole in their MR. Different virtues alow it to make the formulaic way, very slow but powerful (say to wreak vengeance on a dragon, high-echelon demon, or faerie prince), or spontaneous, weak but quick and flexible (say to enslave any lightweight imp, gnome, or salamandra you meet). :smiley:

Ah thanks. Thinking this thread was long dead I should mention that I managed to borrow a copy of TMRE so I'm all set now. Thanks again. :slight_smile:

In the case you haven't done so, you absolutely have to borrow HoH:MC as well. They complement each other so well, they're like two halves of the same book.

I've got all the HoH books, thanks! :slight_smile:

Happy gorging with mystical goodness, then. :wink: