Tree Growing Wand

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

My Verditius Mage whant to do his first item and now I wonder if I got all rules right for it.

The item what he want to make is a Wand out of Wood that speed up the growth of Trees.
The effect of the wand should be that the a Tree grow the equal of 1 year within 1 day or night
So the effect Creo Herbam lvl 15 sound good for this (bring a plant to maturity in a single day or night) then add +2 for Sun and +1 Touch +1 Size and I have a Spell level 35.
What would cost 4 Herbam Vis and a Woodwand with 2x2 is enough for this
Or did I miss something here?

Now I have a look at how high he can get with the enchanting to so how many times the wand can used per day or if even a future improvment to the spell is possible

His Lab Total without Verditius effects is 24 in Creo Herbam
If I understand it as Verditius I can add Craft Woodcarfing (inc. Puissant and Specialisation) +6 and Philosophiae (limit to Magic Theory) +3
So he have 33 what is not enough to do it as lesser enchantment but he uses Wood (dead) for the wand what gives +3 affect living wood and with his leadership of 2 he could take some Forge-Companion but umm where are the rules for this 2 things?
Edit: OK found the rules for Forge-Companion again its HoH:MC 113 and from what I see he could get up to +2 (2 forge-compangion with a Skill of 5 in craft woodcarfing) from them as it is doubtfull to ever find people with craft woodcarfing 10.

2

I've moved this out of original order to answer the actual question first, then (hopefully) give some clarity to the rest of the enchantment bonuses you can get.

Salve Adauli!

Ah yes, the Forge Companions Single Line of Crunch. I can never find it so I've had to run a highliter over the line, and add a bookmark.
How do Shape & Material bonuses aid in the enchanting of items - ArM5 p97 I think, bottom left of the page with the "Material & Size Tables" insert, anyway.

Lab Total is not the same as Casting Total, especially for Verditius. (EDIT: and I know you didn't say Casting Total)

INT + Magic Theory + Aura + Laboratory + Apprentice + Familiar + Technique + Form + S&M bonuses + <<>> is the basic model,
the deluxe Verdi model goes something like this...
INT + MT + Philosophiae (MT CAP)+ Aura + Lab + Hubris (if applicable) + Forge Companion(s) (+1/5 of skill) + Apprentice + Familiar + Shape & Material bonuses + <<<other applicable bonuses (not near my books at the moment, but similar effect + known spell spring to mind.)>>>

Note that a known spell bonus and an existing effect bonus are different but similar.
1/ A known spell gives you benefits to enchanting, but not the other way around. (+1/magnitude of known spell.)
2/ An effect using the same Tech or Form already enchanted into an item gives a +1 to enchanting, both gives +2 (ie CrHe).
(I think, I tend to need to refer to my enchantment cheat sheets for this stuff, and for Verdi it can get... complicated.)

I'd suggest looking into effect expiry in the main book, you can boost your EXCESS (the amount your lab total beats the requirement by) by a huge amount if you want.

Oh, C: Woodcarver (?) 6 allows you to reduce the initial vim vis opening cost of the Invested Item, it doesn't add to your lab total. This does help however, as don't forget the maximum vis / season is 2*Magic Theory, and you effectively can add your C:Woodcarver to that.

Can't think of anything else... Good luck! (And I'm sure one of the people with a better memory than me will be able to correct anything I've missed out or got wrong.)
K.

3

Another option is to remove the +1 size modifier. This means you will only be able to affect trees that are 1 pace across or smaller, but since you can cast this on SEEDS that should not be a problem. That leaves your spell at level 30, that might be a more manageable level for you if you are not very old as a magus. If you are short 2 or 3 points in your lab total, sometimes I have found that hiring a lab in a high level aura (some covenants are bound to have standard labs ready for hiring in level 8 auras or so... for a price) might be an idea you can use.

Cheers,
Xavi

4

Thanks for answearing my Noob questions

I just read trough the Verditus Magic Part and Enchantment again and there it says Shape, Material and Philosophiae together is limited by Magic Theory.

so the formulare must be
INT + MT + Aura + Lab + Hubris (if applicable) + Forge Companion(s) (+1/5 of skill) + Apprentice + Familiar + Shape, Material bonuses & Philosophiae (MT CAP) + magnitude of highest similiar Spell

What I also did missed so fare is that the Lab Total have to be 2x the Effect for a Lesser Enchantment.
(looks like it is time to ask my GM if I still can change Puissant Craft Woodcarfing into Puissant Magic Theory because I overestimidated the effect of Craft in the Enchanting part)

5

Don't worry about it, Verdi are a nightmare to keep straight.

Hmmm. I remembered it as S&M being capped, and Philosophiae being capped, not (S&M + Phil)CAP
For a change, I actually have my copy of ArM5 and HoH:MC with me, as I'm writing up my character again to try and prevent character sheet disintegration. Got any page numbers, and I'll dig in a bit?

Also, if you give us the numbers for INT etc, we can work out the actual total with you, and see if there's any solutions.

Why not just make it as a Greater? The 4 pawns of vim vis cost is reduced to minimum (1), as you have an appropriate Craft skill, you can invest it in several seasons, etc.
effect expiry comes into play when you want a LED but can only make it as a GED... :slight_smile:
ISTR it's x10 multiplier for expires in a year from first use.

Xavi is right, you can drop the Size+1 to norm, that gives you back 5.

K.

6

Its in the right Tab of ArM5 93 line 12 (at last for the PDF Version)

7

Ah yes. Spot on, the S&M + Phil is capped.
Maybe that was superseded by something in HoH:MC...
Cant find anything, time to recalc my sheets again!
K.

8

a other question
is the Magic Theory cap for the S&M + Phil after you add the Specialisation and Puissant?

so in my example
Magic Theory is 3 with Enchanting items specialism and Puissant Magic Theory
would the limit for Shape, Material bonuses & Philosophiae be
a 3 (just the Base)
b 4 (Base + Spec)
c 5 (Base + Puissant)
d 6 (Base + both)

9
  1. Both bonuses apply. Puissant gives you a use value of 5 (3+2). You add a +1 for your specialty on top of that for the final value of 6.

A MT value of 3 is quite low for a lab specialist like yours. Generally you see values of 4 or 5 in starting characters that fdo most of their shinning in the lab. I would try to increase it ASAP. Press your covenant to get some MT books as soon as you can! :wink: There you go, a plot hook driven by your character's ambitions and needs :slight_smile:

As said, if you give us your character numbers (intelligence, craft, MT, philosophiae, ... and the arts you are using as well as your aura and lab bonuses) maybe we can help you in designing the item at the level that your skills allow.

Xavi

10

Yes I found out that curently he can only do lesser Enchantment in Herbam up to Magnitude of 3. :frowning:
But he is still very young, only 1 1/2 years past his gauntlet, and the covenant have a good Magic Theory Summa.

11

You know what to read, then :smiley: He surely can create useful items anyway. Just look for smaller Base levels and/or different arts

Cheers,
Xavi

12

Sure the +4 to the Lab Total this can give after 1 year study the book is usefull but there other things that have a higher priority especial considering that we play a low Vis and slow speed campaign (~1 Saison each 2 RL Month) so fare.

13

+4 for 1 year study is quite low. Try to up your arts instead then. It is relatively easy that you can reap +4 levels in your Arts with 1 or 2 seasons of study if they are not that high.

Alternatively get other items instead. There will be alternatives for sure to what you can achieve using lower level spells/arts in other combinations 8)

Xavi

14

Yes its 20+25=45 exp for getting Magic Theory from 3 to 5 (the limit for a char below 30) so unless the book gives 15 exp or more inc. all Merit and Flaws it takes 4 saisons
The effect on the Enchanting Lab Total from going up by 2 in Magic Theory is +2 direct from Magic Theory and a other +2 from the extra Shape & Material bonuses what together is +4.
I probably will do this the year bevore I go to search for a apprentice but as long many arts are still 0 its bether to bring them to 5 first ^^.

15

What?

The very first paragraph on page 93 for Verditius Magic says

The fact that they can reduce the vis required when opening an item for enchantment is a separate ability which is described in later paragraphs.

16

That one I always find interesting. A Verditius can add their relevant craft ability to their lab total, but can apply any craft ability when reducing the cost to open an item. After some thinking about it, it does make sense. But its still interesting. :slight_smile:

17

Oh, and definitively get a familiar. Easy way to a +4 bonus (Intelligence 3 and MT 1+) in the lab as well as plenty of adventure usefulness. And a true friend, something that magi tend to seriously lack in.

18

Except it should have -3 Intelligence unless it had human intelligence beforehand. Finding a reason why it wouldn't be Cunning is not necessarily easy. And going above score 0 would require further reasons, such as being InMe-based.

19

Animals of virtue. Plenty of +2 and +3 intelligence creatures there.

20

Familiars also make arcane experimentation a little safer (via the gold Cord) - and experimenting gives you that little extra bit from Inventive Genius :slight_smile:

If your troupe uses Covenants, it's usually a good idea for a verditius to - at some point - spend a little time on the lab specialisation rules - and getting a bonus for enchanting items. Every time.
This is very valuable!