Tribunal Books

[Marko_Markoko]

@Toa

@marklawford

Just for the sake of discussion, which Hermetic House is the vanilla one?

Bonisagus. I thought that one was obvious.

Actually, yeah. It all proceeds from there, so House Bonisagus seems like a good baseline Vanilla.

[marklawford]

@Marko Markoko

@Toa

@marklawford

Just for the sake of discussion, which Hermetic House is the vanilla one?

Bonisagus. I thought that one was obvious.

Actually, yeah. It all proceeds from there, so House Bonisagus seems like a good baseline Vanilla.

Apart from them being able to take another magus' apprentice.

[dwightemarsh]

@marklawford

Just for the sake of discussion, which Hermetic House is the vanilla one?

I think there is a difference between forcing a choice of house and then thinking that your character just doesn't care about the house and picking a tribunal for the entire group and have the entire group have to live with that choice.

To go with that analogy. If you are playing a Tremere or a Mercere or a Guernicus there are expectations of the house, but for Flambeau, Tytalus or Jerbiton, these are more expectations than rules. The new tribunals seem to fit into the more constricting level.

[dwightemarsh]

@jebrick

I would put Stonehenge as the vanilla tribunal. I can not recall any special rules or changes to the code that players really have to deal with.

Well, there is the fact that no Redcaps live with the covenant, which might bum some players who wanted to play a mundane Redcap.

I consider having the Tribunal a year later than the rest of the Order useful , since it allows players to visit other Tribunals.

[Lamech]

@dwightemarsh

@marklawford

Just for the sake of discussion, which Hermetic House is the vanilla one?

To go with that analogy. If you are playing a Tremere or a Mercere or a Guernicus there are expectations of the house, but for Flambeau, Tytalus or Jerbiton, these are more expectations than rules. The new tribunals seem to fit into the more constricting level.

Tremere is the only real restrictive one. Guernicus explicitly is about not bothering other magi. That is sort of their whole reason for supporting the code. What it really means to be in that house is that you are expected to investigate crimes, and then tell the Tribunal. And you are respected. Pretty cool huh? House Mercere Magi, (unless you are a Redcap) are basically liked by the mail men. Also you are expected to have lots of children. And once every seven years spend a season [strike]spying on other covenants, and gathering a huge pile of arcane connections[/strike] delivering mail. Not a huge deal.

[Berengar]

Here's an updated proposal:

Summary of Tribunal Book for Campaign Planning

1 Territory of the Tribunal
1.1
1.2 <Mundane Organizations<
1.3
1.4
1.5
1.6

2 The Order - Tribunal Organization
2.1 Effects on Individual Magi
2.1.1
2.1.2
2.1.3
2.2 Effects on Covenants
2.2.1
2.2.2
2.2.3 <Political Involvement (Hermetic)>
2.2.4 <Political Involvement (Other)>
2.2.5
2.3 Factions in the Tribunal
2.3.1
2.3.2
2.4 Important Plots for Campaign

3 Specific Support in the Book
3.1
3.2
3.3

4 Interaction with Other Tribunals
4.1
4.2

5 Miscellaneous Remarks

Notes:
No spoilers. Brevity and precision.
just define a paragraph's content, and are omitted in the text.
The text should have on average two lines per bullet point. Bullet points irrelevant for planning a campaign in a Tribunal shall be dropped.

Cheers

[Tellus]

@dwightemarsh

, which might bum some players who wanted to play a mundane Redcap.

Where do you find these people, and can I borrow some?

[dwightemarsh]

@Tellus

@dwightemarsh

, which might bum some players who wanted to play a mundane Redcap.

Where do you find these people, and can I borrow some?

In general, or the ones who want to play Redcaps?

In my last game someone played a Redcap, but she had made that choice before I joined the game so I don't know how her thought process. I don't know if any of my current players will want to play Redcaps, it may be that playing a Redcap is something you have to play Ars Magica for a while before you realize how powerful it is.

[Toa]

We have a mundane player Redcap in both of our groups.

[Richard_Love]

@marklawford

@Toa

@marklawford

Just for the sake of discussion, which Hermetic House is the vanilla one?

Bonisagus. I thought that one was obvious.

Apart from them being able to take another magus' apprentice.

Vanilla is a flavour too.

[Christian_Andersen (Christian Rosenkjaer Andersen)]

@YR7

@One Shot

I don't think a focused, structured summary of one to two pages would prevent anyone interested in a Tribunal book from buying it. Anyway, the extent of that summary could not go beyond the scope of a review in a fanzine.

Fair enough.

Whose project is that?

@Christian Andersen

Maybe this is a project for fan-based work for Project Redcap? Would there be any copyright violation if one were to take all published tribunal books, list all covenants along with magi in them, plot locations onto a map, write briefly about what the different covenants are/do/want but within vanilla bounds and forgetting all about Cathachs, Gilds, Vassals, Oppida, Patron spirits etc.

I hope nobody read this to mean I actually volunteer for this. While it would be useful and also fun, unless someone breaks the Hermetic limit of Time it is completely unrealistic for me.

[Timothy_Ferguson]

Atlas could certainly argue that yes, this expresses the key concepts of their works and thus strays from fair use.

The trick would be to -ask them first-. Clear fair use only matters if your approach is adversarial.

[Christian_Andersen (Christian Rosenkjaer Andersen)]

@Timothy Ferguson

Atlas could certainly argue that yes, this expresses the key concepts of their works and thus strays from fair use.

The trick would be to -ask them first-. Clear fair use only matters if your approach is adversarial.

Yup, that is why my posting mentioned chocking for any copyright violations or legalese hooplah. Except I apparently made a Com Botch and was perceived to volunteer

[Berengar]

Here is a quick example for the kind of summary we discussed:

Summary of Tribunal Book Guardians of the Forest: The Rhine Tribunal (GotF) for Campaign Planning

1 Territory of the Tribunal
The book describes the Rhine Tribunal (RT) in 1220, with the Domus Magnae of Houses Bonisagus, Bjornaer and Merinita.
1.1 Its boundaries are the Danube to the South, and roughly the borders of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation (HRE) on the other sides. Rügen is part of the RT, but otherwise the Kingdom of Denmark isn’t.
1.2 A rough historical outline of the HRE is given in GotF. To learn about its organization, the Sachsenspiegel (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsenspiegel) is a good start.
1.3 The great Forests of the RT are homes to Realm-aligned spirits of often enormous power (up to Might 60 – heed the errata), that can aid, antagonize and teach inhabitants, even powerful covenants.
1.4, 1.5 GotF details two demons plotting over the RT, designed around the Germans’ struggle with Slavic pagans and Scandinavian people. These demons can easily be removed from a campaign.
1.6 The Wild Hunt Faerie Game terrorizes many areas on winter nights: the Huntsmen search and chase the shy, benevolent Holzfrauen, who might seek refuge with humans.

2 The Order - Tribunal Organization
The RT is controlled by covenants founded centuries ago, and by old magi relying on contacts, favors and a tailored peripheral code.
2.1 Effects on Individual Magi
2.1.1 Young RT magi (called journeymen) have few specific obligations, but without friends and contacts amount to very little. They can rely on the terms of hospitality offered by most RT covenants (and determined in detail by the troupe). They are well advised to join a Gild: a ‘lodge’ which represents an established political agenda and provides support to members.
2.1.2 Gilds and covenant hospitality already provide close social control by sodales. So Quaesitores find little to do and are few.
2.1.3 Reputation and merit recognized by their RT sodales in a formal way advance journeymen to master rank. This typically takes 20-30 years. Masters can then strive for archmage rank as usual.
Journeymen are not allowed to take apprentices. Masters each hold two votes at Tribunal, archmages three. Disputes between RT sodales of different rank, which elsewhere could be decided by certamen, are instead automatically decided in favor of the higher ranking mage.
2.2 Effects on Covenants
2.2.1 All existing RT covenants need to approve, before a new covenant is recognized in RT: think pork. Covenants founded for a specific purpose of Tribunal-wide appeal have the best chances. Remote chapter houses can be founded without universal approval as part of established covenants.
2.2.2, 2.2.3 Obligations incurred at founding time will from the onset keep covenants enmeshed with Tribunal politics.
2.2.4 Suitable magical sites removed from the world are likely (troupe decision) taken centuries ago: so most new covenants can expect to have mundane neighbors.
2.2.5 Fast advancement of specific RT covenants would need significant changes in RT peripheral code.
2.3 Factions in the Tribunal
2.3.1 Eichengilde (preserve RT tradition), Weissdorngilde (protect wilderness – includes Bjornaer Wilderists), Eschengilde (smite Order’s enemies), Holundergilde (protect Faerie), Lindengilde (increase cooperation of magi – includes Bjornaer Harmonists), Apfelgilde (improve mundane relations)
2.3.2 Harmonists and Wilderists must come to terms, how House Bjornaer shall protect the dwindling wildernesses from mundanes, and Crintera from Danes.
Two covenants fight for control of the northern seas. In Bohemia two covenants seek to establish different kinds of paganism. The original home covenant of House Merinita might (troupe decision) not be altogether lost, but stay in hiding and plot to retake their House.
2.4 Important Plots for Campaign
The RT covenants around the lower and middle Rhine, together with Normandy Tribunal covenants north of the Seine, will bring a move to the next Great Tribunal: their forming into the new Lotharingian Tribunal. They argue, that to exist among prosperous mundanes requires an adequate peripheral code. Even RT covenants distant from the prospected area of the new Tribunal hope to benefit through trade and chapterhouses from it. But there is also an example of an RT covenant which existed among mundanes and was destroyed for it.

3 Specific Support in the Book
3.1 GotF gives a rudimentary system for Initiations of Virtues by Forest spirits, which especially HMRE develops further.
Gild–related Virtues (quite useful for journeymen magi) and Flaws are provided.
3.2 There is a 22 page mini-campaign about founding a covenant at the middle Rhine.
3.3 There is also a chapter introducing Rhine sagas and their potential in more general terms.

4 Interaction with Other Tribunals
4.1 , 4.2 Both Normandy and Rhine Tribunal are involved with the attempt to found the Lotharingian Tribunal. A covenant on Zealand (formally Novgorod Tribunal) tries to get accepted in RT. The Greater Alps Tribunal is often used by established RT magi as an example for good practice.

5 Miscellaneous Remarks

It is here as an example to show, what could go into a Summary for Campaign Planning, and how it might look. Who was in favor of such information being easily available can now see, whether this is what he thought of.
Detailed contents are then up for change in a second step - and perhaps better at Project Redcap, if Yair's offer still stands, and Atlas does not call for a halt.

Cheers

[Berengar]

I put the template for a Summary of Tribunal Book for Campaign Planning, and the Summary of Tribunal Book Guardians of the Forest: The Rhine Tribunal (GotF) for Campaign Planning onto Project Redcap, just as discussed here. See redcap.org/page/Which_Tribun ... e_Tribunal for the result so far.

@Yair: Please have a look on it, especially as an editor. I tried to conform with Project Redcap formats and results here, but am not sure I succeeded.

Now it is up to further volunteers to do summaries for other new Tribunal books. I especially look at dwightemarsh and ezzelino here.

Cheers

[YR7]

I edited the template and Rhine-exemplar a bit. (I mostly entered empty lines between paragraphs.) Note I moved the template to the end of the page (no need for it for the common reader, it shouldn't distract him) and that I also shortened the title a bit. The text could use hyper-linking to existing content; for example, if you write [[HMRE]] instead of HMRE, then the wiki will automatically link to the "Hedge Magic Revised Edition" page, which could be a huge help for someone that doesn't know what HMRE stands for. Unfortunately, I can't devote the time to do that right now; perhaps later.

Yair

[Berengar]

@YR7

I edited the template and Rhine-exemplar a bit. (I mostly entered empty lines between paragraphs.) Note I moved the template to the end of the page (no need for it for the common reader, it shouldn't distract him) and that I also shortened the title a bit. The text could use hyper-linking to existing content; for example, if you write [[HMRE]] instead of HMRE, then the wiki will automatically link to the "Hedge Magic Revised Edition" page, which could be a huge help for someone that doesn't know what HMRE stands for. Unfortunately, I can't devote the time to do that right now; perhaps later.

Yair

Already looks a lot better now than I had left it. Thanks a lot!

[Jarkman]

@One Shot

I put the template for a Summary of Tribunal Book for Campaign Planning, and the Summary of Tribunal Book Guardians of the Forest: The Rhine Tribunal (GotF) for Campaign Planning onto Project Redcap, just as discussed here. See redcap.org/page/Which_Tribun ... e_Tribunal for the result so far.

Now it is up to further volunteers to do summaries for other new Tribunal books. I especially look at dwightemarsh and ezzelino here.

Cheers

Hmmm, I should really get around to writing one for The Cradle and the Crescent, the "Not-Tribunal" Tribunal Book....

Lachie

[YR7]

@Jarkman

Hmmm, I should really get around to writing one for The Cradle and the Crescent, the "Not-Tribunal" Tribunal Book....

Lachie

There is already a part set aside for it, "Mesopotamia", but it's very desolate and empty...

Yair

[Jarkman]

@YR7

@Jarkman

Hmmm, I should really get around to writing one for The Cradle and the Crescent, the "Not-Tribunal" Tribunal Book....

Lachie

There is already a part set aside for it, "Mesopotamia", but it's very desolate and empty...

Yair

Well, Mesopotamia is one of the more interesting areas... we'll have to fix that, eh?