Tribunal Maps on Google Maps

Can anyone recall where the idea that the Rhine border with Transylvania was at Buda and Pest comes from? I thought it was accurate, but I just looked in the Rhine book and the border is clearly further northwest, because Hungary is in Transylvania, and on the current electronic map, the capital of Hungary (Esztergorm) is in the Rhine.

The current map seems to show the junction of the three tribunals at Maribor. Actually its just east of Vienna, in GoTF, following the river, so it seems between Vienna and Bratislava somewhere.

2nd edition be damned...

It makes sense for the Provencal Tribunal to include Provence and border with Rome at the Alps, NE via Savoy with Greater Alps and then to the north with the SE part of Normandy - Lyons being the NE corner "roughly". From there west to Bordeaux in a vague line makes sense, noting that there are hardly any canon covenants in the south of Normandy and none particularly mentioned in the north from the old Provencal sourcebooks. A bit of spillover into the Val d'Aoste is scenic. It sets up a bit of mundane politicking as background - west of the Rhone is the Duchy of Toulouse, east of the river is the Holy Roman Empire and to an extent the junior branch of the Catalans.

I think the language grouping actually makes sense and provides a good background character - historically the language and troubadours linked this southern region which was very different to northern France and to the German/Italian states of the Holy Roman Empire over the Alps.

The covenants still define the borders, they just happen to fall out like the language...

From a Hermetic perspective, post Schism War in the early 11th century perhaps the dejected Flambeau migrate south and on to Iberia, generating some friction with the established Jerbiton Provencal magi and the convivencia minded Iberian Flambeau who have had time to come to a n understanding with the southern Muslim magi of Andalusia and the Maghreb. The arrival of "French magi" from the North thus begins the proto-crusade to Barbastro and then helps spark the Reconquista. The migrating Flambeau magi have less qualms about staking out claims in the borderlands between Andalusia and/or aiding the mundane Christian kingdoms, culminating in the fall of Toledo in 1085, disrupting the Jerbiton sponsored Toldeo School of translators momentarily before coming to an uneasy agreement. Perhaps the Tytali follow their fiery foes, spreading mischief and strife that culminates in the Albigensian Crusade and the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa in 1212...

Just some ideas,

Lachie

(Edit...)

Found my old post about Burgundy with the various links etc:

It would seem that adding the whole of Lower Burgundy (County and March of Provence, Vienne, Grenoble) to Provencal would make sense as:

  1. It's not part of the Greater Alps
  2. It's not part of Normandy
  3. It's not part of Rome

This actually leaves no Tribunal for Provence to be attached to except Provencal. This only works if there are no covenants in Provence. Therefore:

  1. It makes a lot of sense (particularly as Provencal is meant to be the rump of the old Lotharingian Tribunal)

Not exactly QED, but I think you get my point here...

That would certainly make sense. I remember old discussions about Tribunals on the Berklist with people working out borders and folks remarking, 'Why isn't Provence in the Provencal Tribunal?' (I had seen it alternately in Normandy or as part of the Roman tribunal in older maps.)

The re-raising of the language question is an interesting one. Given that the Lingua Franca (to use an anachronism) of the order is Latin, what opportunity for fracture over linguistic lines is there?

We have covenant grogs who probably /don't/ know Latin (which I'm mostly glossing over in my story just because having French servants not understand an Irish magi isn't very interesting.) Would we then assert that as grogs do have geographically linked languages that a newly formed covenant chooses which tribunal to join due to, functionally, its grogs? (Obviously, the magi wouldn't justify it to themselves that way...)

::ponders::

I think Tribunal borders shouln't follow language patterns. Political borders may be OK, not the 13th century but from the era they were consolidated. Maybe 10-11th century? euratlas.com/history_europe/ ... _1000.html
However it is quite possible they don't follow any political borders.

It's complicate to define political borders on the Iberian Tribunal, cause in this region there's a war between Christians and Al-Andalus, and they are changing year to year. But it is described well containing all the peninsula, I think. Any Covenant in the peninsula belogs to the Iberian tribunal, no matter the side of the conflict the covenant choose: Roman or Reconquist. But there's some tool in gmaps to describe this situation? like diferents colours in the same region?

Dont forget that for any people who came into contact with several languages, it was VERY common that they learned several enough or not uncommonly even fluently simply as part of normal life.
A multilingual place as a covenant would likely be(unless both magi and vast majority of other covenant inhabitants were all from the same place), with latin as the primary, i would say its higly likely that most grogs/servants etc would have a minimum of Latin 1 (unless they have just arrived) and any involved more than in passing with magi with a different mother language would probably learn some of that as well(or possibly instead of latin, learning a little of all "important persons" home language), and everyone closely involved with magi in general would probably have Latin 3-5(or again, similar scores in their home languages).

OMG

I'm trying to build some decent maps for my games, but guys, what a difficult task... Most covenants are placed by guessing and so on... I have two maps, one of Loch Leglean Tribunal and other for Provençal Tribunal... I tried to merge them with the map made on google earth by ndkid....

I would ask a HUGE favor from people of Atlas Games: Can you make an "official" Google Earth map of the most important locations in Mytic Europe in 5th ed? I think that would help a lot... Is there is no one to make this, well, just point a file that we here in the forum can work... After we are done, you get a look and say: "Ok, this is it" =) and place the .kmz file avaliable in the Ars magica page

If anyone is interested in my versions of the Tribunals, here are the links (some Covenants ideas i grabed on the net, so not everything is "cannon"... especially in Loch Leglean that now have a mix of Mistrige and Lux ex Tenebris in it... with calebais nearby):

Provençal Tribunal: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... c4708c&z=8 (Puit des Ames is in the place of Mistrige)

Loch Leglean Tribunal: maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 938354&z=8

I think that the Tribunals don't have a clear area or border, so i think the most efective way to map a tribunal is to put a sign in the covenant showing what tribunal it is part of...

So, it is possible to have an "official" google maps or google earth map of mytical europe? It would help a lot to lay games in 5ed with older editions material (the Loch legland suplement don't even have a map ¬¬), and would save A LOT OF TIME, for planning travels, politics and etc...

So? what you guys think? and anyone from Atlas can speak for this?

Given some sort of official ruling, I'll happily mark up (for no compensation) a google map with whatever requirements the authors at Atlas decide. Specifically, create a series of polys that reflect the tribunals and ... just happen to be useful on the google copyrighted images.

The Narrator of our game changed the locations on the provençal tribunal to better fit our game...

So, no one of atlas will say a word?

If you want to ask Atlas, post in the Ask Atlas forum. It's where you get prompt attention for these sorts of things.

I've done that =P

I'm not flaming, man, but your message over there looks like linkspam.

Linkspam? But i just pointed to where the discussion is... I don't like redudancy very much.... but i can copy and post my post there ¬¬

This is the kind of thing that we have no trouble with fans doing, but we're not able to do ourselves due to time constraints, copyright issues, etc. If someone wanted to make such a map, we'd be happy to put a note up on our blog about it, and I'm sure the various ArM fan sites would be interested in linking to it, too.

Nice =)

So, who else wants to join this project? I have a few tribunal books here, and the Mytic europe from 3ed...

I don't have a good machine to work on Google Earth, but i can do some things in Google maps... So what map will be the base?

I have to finish some works this weekend, but as soon as possible i will start to work on this map =)

Some sugestions:

I don't think we need to stablish the frontiers of the tribunals, just pout something that indicates of what tribunal that covenant is part of...

We can use the 5ed books as cannon to the map, so if anything in older books contradicts something, the 5ed edition prevail....

I think we can start with a simpĺe map: just the covenants and main citys.. Afterwards we can introduce other places, roads, trade rotes and etc...

Just put things that are cited in the AM books: People can use the import tool of Google maps/Earth to adjust the material to their campaings

I

I'm happy to help.

and there we go https://forum.atlas-games.com/t/google-maps-earth-project/4128/1

anyone interested please go there =)

I put some tribunals (iberia, Rome, Germany, Provencal) in our googlemap campaign map - maps.google.com/?mid=1250517754

Hey Artur, you put in the wrong topic, but ok.. i will put it there too =P