Twilight Prone

In reading the description of the flaw, it sounds like only botches cause checks for Twilight. But in the description on Twilight, any source of two or more warping points causes a check for Twilight, not just botches. Would you have a character with the Twilight Prone flaw check for Twilight in either of these two circumstances:

a) Character is targeted by a Creo Vim effect cast spontaniously, creating the greatest number of warping points possible in the magus, with a touch duration and +20 penetration? If if caused a single warping point would you check for Twilight?

b) Character is targeted by a touch ranged version of Thought within Babble, a spell that they are not casting and was not designed to work on them, and is L30, so it causes a warping point. As it causes a single warping point, would you check for Twilight?

The flaw clearly states this flaw effects when "you" cast spells. So warping received from other sources than your spell casting IMO would not cause a Twilight check. Your two examples are not spells cast by the flaw affected magus, so there should be no extra "penalty".

And he is right.

And that makes this flaw even more cheap. What a good price major flaw :smiley:

If you only play young magi, it is an extremely cheap flaw, youp. It is one of these flaws that gain momentum as you get older, and when you are an experienced magus it can be quite crippling. But it is just colorful packaging when you are young.

Sure. But most times your magus is young when you play (by young I mean score in warping < 10, or even 9)

In one of my Sagas we used to have a Mercere with Twillight Prone. He went onto Twillight all the time, it was a crushing flaw for him.

How come??

When you are twilight prone, gaining enigmatic wisdom should be a top priority; using magic object is a way to avoid the penalty...

Sure, but the character in question was obnoxious and not fully utilizing his magical potential. Perhaps he didn't want to associate so much with the Criamon as learning Enigmatic Wisdom would require. Very arrogant and proud in his oppinions of himself as being og noble stock, pagan and Mercere: "The fabric of the order". Also, balance-wise learning Enigmatic Widsom for the sole purpose of avoiding a flaw taken voluntarily reeks of munchkinisk and rendesr the flaw irelevant. That's a no-go in our sagas. I remember how Enigmatic Wisdom back in our 4th ed saga became very popular, and people even voluntarily went in Twillight with a CrVi spell in very low aura to reap the benefits of good results (Increased Understanding was the choice back then). The following 4th ed saga refrained from doing this. After a Twillight or two most magi had a score in EW though, due to using story exp or finding time to read the book in the meantime. But in our 5th ed we somewhat restrict EW to Criamon. it is readily available, bit requires effort and time to get inducted into the cult. And you will loose some connection with your own house since you all but switch to Criamon.
As for magic devices we had a very, very vis-poos saga. We're doing better now, but to begin with, it really sucked to be the Verditius.

What about spell masteries?

Yes, that would have solved many of the problems, perhaps for a more focused magus. He should have mastered a few choice spells. But I think the main problem was with spontaneous magic mostly.
He was our teleportation specialist, but did little in the way of helping the entire covenant. Like inventing a Group spell. Perhaps he was actually trying as the characetr was claiming. Anyway he did share his lab texts and my own Tremere just barely managed to invent Leap of Homecoming from text, but had troubles casting it. I really cost him a lot of Warping, although no Twillight. After a grueling season of practice it was mastered at level 1, and I chose Learn from Mistakes! And boy was that a good choice. With a familiar with a good Gold cord and some mastery the risks are little. With Stalwart casting as the second mastery my Tremere can cast again and again with little risk of Botching and no fatigue loss. And eventually a good deal of experience points are gained in this mastery.