Typhon of Tytalus -- Character creation

[Arthur]

@qcipher

Careful not unleash the Aodhan! Then you'll really see some indecision!

Let's see how indecisive he can be with Typhon walking away!

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Arthur

I was going by the description of Lions of the North, which mentions that the Highlands and Lowlands used different languages, and that Scottish is a mix of some Gaelic, Germanic and English.

So what's being spoken in the Highlands vs the Lowlands? Gaelic (Scottish Highlands) vs Gaelic (Scottish Lowlands)?

It's a little confusing. As near as I can tell, the Scottish/Irish split of Gaelic hasn't happened yet, but Scots is a separate Germanic language. So you have Gaelic in the Highlands, and Scots in the Lowlands and along the English border.

@Arthur

Groomed to Taste is basically a natural modification of the target's appreance -- making his hair longer or shorter, growing a beard, applying makeup, etc. All the changes are natural, so they remain after the spell is cast, even though the spell itself has a Momentary duration. That is also why it is Rego instead of Muto: "The Art of Rego allows a maga to change the state of a thing to some other state that the individual thing can naturally have." (ArM5 p.78)

It doesn't transform the target into something he is not. For example, it couldn't make someone who is naturally bald grow hair. Nor change his features to look like someone else. This is more of a spell to assist personal grooming and natural disguise.

Okay, it makes sense now that I'm awake. For some reason, my mind was combining the two spells.

@Arthur

Being able to interrup a MuCo spell cast at yourself is not legacy for only a few spells -- it is included in the MuCo guidelines (second paragraph of the right column). It does require a focus of some kind: examples are "a wolfskin cloak or some water in your hands". I was thikning that making a tearing off motion with both hands, starting at the back of the head (à la Mission Impossible) might do the trick, for lack of a better idea, but I can try to come up with a more tangible physical focus for that (suggestions would be welcome).

I had missed that bit in the guidelines. Carry on.

[Arthur]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

It's a little confusing. As near as I can tell, the Scottish/Irish split of Gaelic hasn't happened yet, but Scots is a separate Germanic language. So you have Gaelic in the Highlands, and Scots in the Lowlands and along the English border.

Ok, so I've updated his character sheet so that he has Gaelic (Scottish) 1 and Scots (Edinburgh) 1. That reflects the fact that he picked up a little bit in Edinburgh while researching the location of the lake in his vision, and some Gaelic from his "mercenary" guards while travelling the Highlands.

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Arthur

Being able to interrup a MuCo spell cast at yourself is not legacy for only a few spells -- it is included in the MuCo guidelines (second paragraph of the right column). It does require a focus of some kind: examples are "a wolfskin cloak or some water in your hands". I was thikning that making a tearing off motion with both hands, starting at the back of the head (à la Mission Impossible) might do the trick, for lack of a better idea, but I can try to come up with a more tangible physical focus for that (suggestions would be welcome).

I had missed that bit in the guidelines. Carry on.

Just to be certain, do you need me to define a physical focus for ending the spell? Or is the motion I described sufficient?

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Arthur

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Arthur

Being able to interrup a MuCo spell cast at yourself is not legacy for only a few spells -- it is included in the MuCo guidelines (second paragraph of the right column). It does require a focus of some kind: examples are "a wolfskin cloak or some water in your hands". I was thikning that making a tearing off motion with both hands, starting at the back of the head (à la Mission Impossible) might do the trick, for lack of a better idea, but I can try to come up with a more tangible physical focus for that (suggestions would be welcome).

I had missed that bit in the guidelines. Carry on.

Just to be certain, do you need me to define a physical focus for ending the spell? Or is the motion I described sufficient?

I like it, and I think it'll work.

[Xavi]

Nice character. I dislike lawyer types IMS (I played one once and did not like it) because of the stories that they centre around, but that is a question of personal taste.

The shapeshifter virtue is certainly a novelty, specially given your own auto-imposed limitations. I have seen magi with shapeshifter before (shapeshift magic is notoriously difficult in hermetic terms) but never around a reptile theme. The non magic approach to things is certainly a novelty as well.

However, for a non magic approach I think your social and onbservation skills are extremely limited. His skill package looks more like that of a traveller than an advocate to me. Lowish social and observation skills, and he also have rather limited academic skills. He excels in languages, that is true, but the levels bought are not that impressive either. Dunno, seems somewhat a jack of all trades. His spell selection is quite hodge podge as well. I am still trying to find a reason why he would need transformation of the thorny staff, for example, when a level 10 mentem spell could be much more useful to his intended role.

In general I like the idea, but I am not sure that the selected spells and abilities reflect the concept that well.

[Arthur]

@Xavi

However, for a non magic approach I think your social and onbservation skills are extremely limited. His skill package looks more like that of a traveller than an advocate to me. Lowish social and observation skills, and he also have rather limited academic skills. He excels in languages, that is true, but the levels bought are not that impressive either. Dunno, seems somewhat a jack of all trades. His spell selection is quite hodge podge as well. I am still trying to find a reason why he would need transformation of the thorny staff, for example, when a level 10 mentem spell could be much more useful to his intended role.

In general I like the idea, but I am not sure that the selected spells and abilities reflect the concept that well.

The abilities and spell selections were based on the reality of his background and limitations, as well as by his pater. His is definitively not optimized for a single role. I could certaintly have specialized him for a single role, but I dislike magi that are optimized for a single role, making them single-trick ponies.

His master taught him a base in the various areas of Tytalan activities, leaving it to him to develop the one that suits him better after apprenticeship. So he's got a base in many things. In that sense, he is a jack of many trades, making him a relatively self-sufficient magus.

Painful Magic, which I set as a strong basis of the character, had a lot of impact on his spell selection. He learned mostly longer-duration effects. Transformation of the Thorny Staff is an escalation on Tangle of Wood and Thorns -- if immobilizing the opponent is not sufficient, they you hurt him.

But I see what you mean -- the character looks a bit bare and scattered right after apprenticeship. I think the concept will look much better with a few more years of experience. We'll see how this works out in play.

EDIT: When creating magi, I tend to strictly seperate xp gained from the different phases of life. The child and youngster do not know that he will become a magus some day, so they learn what seem best at that stage of life. And then, during apprenticeship, he will learn mostly what his master tells him to learn. So there are always many different conflicting needs and this tends to be reflected in my selection of abilities. I try to keep interference from the end goal on the selection at each stage of life as limited as possible. This does tend to produce magi which are less tightly focused, and with the occasional oddity in their abilities and spells selection.

[Xavi]

OK, nice approach

The thorny staff is a fairly bad spell, still. A creation + throwing of wood missiles would be better for the same spell level, for example, or a spell that avoids conflict in the first place (invisibility, calm the emotion of the heart or equivalent). Grogs are there for dishing out damage, after all Even a spell to set his weapon on fire (well, only makes it shine beautifully and look awesomemely magical) tends to prevent conflict better than a few razors in a staff.

Xavi

[Arthur]

@Xavi

The thorny staff is a fairly bad spell, still. A creation + throwing of wood missiles would be better for the same spell level, for example, or a spell that avoids conflict in the first place (invisibility, calm the emotion of the heart or equivalent). Grogs are there for dishing out damage, after all Even a spell to set his weapon on fire (well, only makes it shine beautifully and look awesomemely magical) tends to prevent conflict better than a few razors in a staff.

I don't disagree with you. That spell is not my best choice and it might be worth replacing it with something else.

Hmmm, let's see what other level 10 spells might work:

• Wreaths of Foul Smoke (CrAu 10) might have been nice, but he doesn't have the Arts for it right out of apprenticeship (and shifting them around would mean some of the other spells are out).
• Piercing Shaft of Wood (MuHe 10, Re) would be ok, although I'd prefer a longer-lasting spell. Because of the Painful Magic flaw, D:Mom spells are not very attractive for this magus.
• Show of the Flames and Smoke (MuIg 10) is a possibility. It could work as an intimidation spell. Hornet Fire (MuIg 10, Re) could also work for much the same purpose.
• Wizard's Sidestep (RiIm 10) would make a nice defensive spell. He doesn't really have one of those.
• Sight of the Transparent Motive (InMe 10) is a possibility, although it's another D:Mom spell.
• He already has The Call to Slumber (ReMe 10)
• Eyes of the Eons (InTe 10) might be useful for investigating something, but seems too limited to be worth it.
• Fist of Shattering and Rusted Decay of Ten-Score Years (both PeTe 10) could be interesting additions, except that he doesn't have the Arts for them.
• Wielding the Invisible Sling (ReTe 10) is a nice all-around attack spell. Although it is another D:Mom.
• Same for Invisible Sling of Vilano.
• The Unseen Porter (ReTe 10) is a nice utility spell.
• The Invisible Eyes Revealed (InVi gen) was on an initial list, so I could always bring it back. But at level 10, I'd rather wait and learn it at level 15 during the saga.

One last possibility would be a pair of level-5 Unraveling the Fabric of (Form) (PeVi gen). Since that would allow him to dispel level 15 spells at least (25 if he's lucky), this could prove quite handy to interrupt longer-lasting spells (his own and those of others).

I'll give it some more thought before making the change.

Thanks for the comments, Xavi!

[Arthur]

Ok, based on the previous comments, I am making the following changes to Typhon's spells:

• Replacing Palm of Flame (CrIg 5) with Unravelling the Fabric of Imaginem (PeVi 5).
• Replacing Transformation of the Thorny Staff (MuHe 10) with Hornet Fire (MuIg 10, Re)

[Arthur]

@Arthur

Typhon's build points:

• Book (30 bp) -- Physics by Aristotle (in Ancient Greek): Summa in Philosophiae (L6Q12)
• Book (16 bp) -- A Treatise of Aquam by Falke of Bjornaer: Summa in Aquam (L8Q8)
• Book (23 bp) -- On Ghosts and Those Left Behind: Summa on Mentem (L15Q8), quality is 1 less than original due to quick copying
• Money (6 bp) -- Only a small part (10 pounds) is in the form of coins; the rest is in the form of various spices (50 pounds)

I've taken a more detailed look at what's available in the covenant's library, as well as what can be traded (or studied) from the neighbor's library (Orientali Litore). It now seems to me that the two books on Arts are pretty much sub-standard as opposed to what's available in the saga. As in almost totally worthless.

So I'd like to change those selections, so that they are at least somewhat useful.

I'm thinking of dropping the Mentem summa and changing the Aquam summa to L11Q22. The remaining 6 bp would go to spell lab text (possibly Enchantment of the Scrying Pool).

Would that be an acceptable change?

[Jonathan.Link]

Quality limit is 20, 11+ 20-level OR 22, whichever is lower.

[Arthur]

@Jonathan.Link

Quality limit is 20, 11+ 20-level OR 22, whichever is lower.

Where is it specified?

Theorically, a writer with Com +5 and Good Teacher can scribe a summa with a base Quality of 14 (under Corebook rules), and the limit is the same in Covenants. Both also specify that Quality can be up to double that by lowering the Level. So a quality of 22 seemed manageable (Com +2 and Good Teacher, Art score of 44 or less if Com is higher).

I'm not contesting the limit, just trying to track down where it is specified so as not to run afoul of it. Tried looking quickly through old threads and on the wiki, but couldn't find it.

[Jonathan.Link]

The limit is specified in Covenants, and all of the books, were within those limits, with the exception of the Vim book, which comes about as a result of the boon.

[Arthur]

Ah, yes, Covenants p.5. I was looking in Chapter 7 and not finding it there. Silly me!

Note that I think the limit on p.5 is a soft limit for covenant creation, and can be exceeded by a character writing such a book.

Ok, then. I'll go with L11Q18 for the Aquam summa, and the remaining points will go to a Q10 tractatus on Mentem. No lab text.

EDIT: Just for kicks, I'll say the Aquam summa is also written in Ancient Greek.

[Jonathan.Link]

I agree it's a limit for covenant creation, and also for build points given to characters. If someone writes a book, it's a totally different deal, including contacting an NPC who could write a book...