Verditius Elder Runes

I am here again to ask you, fellow members of the Order, a little help regarding this form of magic.

Arm5 Core Rulebook [p.96] says: "In addition to the Shape and Material bonus details in the construction give an additional bonus equal to the magus's Philosophiae score. Other Magi refer to these details as Verditius Runes"

The bonus is capped by the Magus's Magic Theory, so if I have MT 5 and Philosophiae 2 I could give a total bonus of 5 in enchanting a Lyre to create magical sounds (max S&M bonus 3 otherwise). Right?

Now in the HoH:MC [p.127] there is a different version of the previous rule

In short using Elder Runes a Verditius Magus is able to double is score in the used Art with only a +5 per rune to the final level of effect but he cannot add his score in Philosophy.

And now some questions!

  • are the rules in HoH:MC a replacement of the old rules so I have to use it without add my Philosophy Score but only to double the rilevant Arts used? (I suppose yes, but I am not sure)
  • If I have MT 5 (Puissant MT +2 for a final level of 7) and Philosophy 2 how many pawn of vis could I use? 10 or 14 (so Puissant is a factor in the calculation)

Thanks a lot for your answers, I am a young Magus who drinks at the source of your wisdom!

Elder runes is a different ability to verditious runes with different rules. They only share similar names.

Verditious runes is an ability that every member of house Verditious has. Verditious Elder runes is a major mystery virtue only leaned with great personal effort and sacrifice.


Note that Verditius Runes are different from Elder Runes. You can use both. HoH:MC does not modify Verditius Magic, it adds a new mystery (Elder Runes) that can be used in conjunction with Verditius Magic.

[EDIT: too late! Erik beat me to it]

Oh my Lord! This open to me new and very interesting ways to work in my Lab!!! :smiley:

I have contacted my Storyteller about this but he disagree about the use of Verditius Runes sentencing to use it only for Invested Devices, but I think also in all other kind of magical items (Charged and Lesser devices).

With Planetary Magic I could be able to add a very massive bonus in my Lab (in short words I am only able to create magic items and I am often useless in combat situations)

Metodicus wrote: short words I am only able to create magic items and I am often useless in combat situations...

Why are you useless in combat situations????
NO Verditus should be useless in a combat!
While your sodales spend time to invent a spell to cast pilums of fire and later start mastering it, you invent items instead! A pilum of fire of an item is as effective as one created with "normal" casting. Using a Verditus' lab total can create awesome devices with hefty penetration (remember penetration +2 for each level added to the effect).
In fact, the most deadly effects in our sage were envoked using items (made by ourselves) and not by using spells.
AND you have no risk to botch our to loose fatigue this way.

When I created Metodicus I had in mind as a main concept a Lab-Rat PG without any combat Abilities or Spells but only with good abilities for the creation of magic items and I spend the greater part of my life to improve my Covenant and not to hardening the combat powers of my Sodales or Grogs.

I know the potential martial capacities of a Verditius Magus (especially a magically "upgraded" magus), simply I have chosen other ways with great disappointment of my combat oriented sodales :laughing:

In combat situations I am unable to wield a knife or a dagger and I trust only in my Arts Score, the best spell I have is "The Crystal Dart" mastered two times (Multiple Casting and Penetration).

So, are you able to tell me if I can use Philosophy (for Verditius Runes) in all Lab activities regarding the creation of magic Items (Invested Devices and Charged/Lesser devices)?

Well, if I get it right, the rules state that you can use Verditus runes (Using your Philosophy-score as S/M-bonus) only for those itmes that need to be opend for enchantment. But I am not so sure as I am no native speaker.
However, I would ask your SG for a house rule to claryfy it.
I do not think it is overpowered to use Verditus runes for all enchantments, as the maximun bonus equals you Magic Theory score.
By the way, be rereading the rules concerning the Verditus house mystery, I discovered that when you open an item for enchantment with Verditus runes, other mages do profit from them when instilling an effect later on.