Vibria of Flambeau (development)

SQ 20 if he's teaching Single Weapon.

The specialization was already counted in the 19. His Teaching is only 3 at the time Vibria trains with him.

From Meeting the Vavel Dragon (Autumn 1235):

  • Magic Lore: 3xp, from the discussions she had with Sigmundo about dragons, their customs, heritage, laws, etc.
  • Etiquette: 3xp (to raise the score to 1), from doing courtly grace stuff in Krakow.
  • Finesse: 1 xp (raising score to 2), from practicing pin-point with her spells (e.g. the puke clean-up spell).
  • Folk Ken: 4 xp (raising score to 1), from dealing with people and not incinerating them.
  • Leadership: 4xp, from leading the soldiers and the magi, and getting everyone where there were going (mostly) intact.

I'm intentionally holding off on advancing Vibria until after the Vavel Dragon series concludes and we decide if/when/how Vibria returns to Andorra.

I'm starting to work on advancing Vibria up to the designated spot. Quick question: How much trouble would she get in if she spent a season practicing working with her dragon form? (I'm thinking Practice in Athletics, with a Specialty in Flying, because I'm not sure this late at night what else would fit.)

Have you already forgotten what your grandfather told you?

I need to address Timey-Whimey concerns.
I forget exactly when Vibria began her leave, and I purposefully did not set the exact year of the "Incident" (in your debriefing you were encouraged to be humble and play it down).
And I did say to pencil in your return anywhere after 1237, [size=50](Though you picked 1236, which is before. 1238 is after)[/size]
Work with me here.
I want to take up several seasons of your time for directed purpose, and land you back home in Winter 1238 instead of 36. Your adventure took two seasons. You already accounted for that. So I am asking for eight seasons, which is an abstract of the time you spent wandering Mythic Europe with Sigmundo before the Incident, the denouement after it, and some time learning your new dragon breath. The results are 40xp for Mythic Europe Lore &/or Magic Lore &/or Lore/Language of areas you passed through. Then you replace a lost power with a new power almost just like it but a bit better (details to follow). Finally, there are ??xp for your adventure (TBD), and a bonus of ??xp for at least a season of denouement (TBD).
Then you get back to Arans well in time for Christmas 1238 :smiley:

And you don't keep the ring. It is bad. Very bad. Your struggle against it is part of the story in the Incident.
Make your own ring or learn how to shapeshift :slight_smile:

So, I propose the following timeline...

  • 1236 or 37 The Incident in Transylvania
  • 1238 Vibria returns to Andorra
  • 1242 Ancient History
  • 1245 The probation proposed by Vocis expires at the end of the year

A Proposal for Vibria's Flame Breath
I have talked about this before, and this is what I propose.
Mythic Blood is a compound Virtue, composed of various parts. The Mythic Power is, I would estimate, equal to a pair of Minor Virtues (there is one in RoP-Divine that grants 15 levels that work the same way).
Having lost that, as a metagame sacrifice, I propose replacing it with two other Minor Virtues and a more efficient design.

Personal Power & Variable Power, taken as Minor Virtues.
Gout of Fire: Init +1, Ignem
R: special, D: Mom, T: Ind
Mastery 1 (Boost)
[tab][/tab]Vibria can breathe a gout of flame that shoots out to inflict fire damage. The fire comes from within the drake's lungs (R: Per), so subtract the number of paces distant from the damage inflicted. Therefore, the maximum effective range is the damage inflicted.
[tab][/tab]This is a Variable Power, so the amount and intensity of the flame can be adjusted as desired. Base Damage may be as little as desired, or as high as her Creo-Ignem score. Penetration equals her Creo-Ignem minus the Base Damage, plus her Penetration score.
[tab][/tab]By spending a Fatigue, she may add the lower Art (of Creo or Ignem) twice in the above formula. Further, she can Master the Power as if it were a spell, adding the score to the Formula above and granting a different feat with each point.
CrIg10 (Base 5, +1 Rego for projection)
Personal Power (10 levels), Improved Power (-1 cost, +1 Init, 5xp Mastery)
Variable Power (based on Art Scores)

Yes. Yes I had.

Edited for Winter of 1238. (I had misunderstood for "1237 or later", and with the saga years starting in winter here...)

Changed the header to Winter of 1238, and will repost in a couple of minutes based on this info.

40 xp in various Lores. To be distributed as follows:

  • 10 xp in Magic Lore, to raise the score to 5.
  • 15 xp in Transylvania Tribunal Lore, giving her a score of 2.
  • 5 xp in Rhine Tribunal Lore, giving her a score of 1.
  • 5 xp in Faerie Lore, giving her a score of 1.
  • 5 xp in Tremere Lore, giving her a score of 1.

I think I made the change on the magi planner.

I really like this.

I'm chalkboarding Vibria's "I'm a dragon, b***h!" spell, and have a question about the requisites, and wondering if I'm missing something.

I'm looking at MuCo(An) 30, to start with. The base, I think, is Level 20 ("turn a human into a bird or a fish"), which seems to be the closest. It probably has an Animal requisite, for turning into a Dragon. With a R: Personal, D: Sun (+2), and T: Individual, raises it to 30.

I remembered something about Vim requisites for magical abilities, and was able to track it down, under the Creo Animal guidelines, for creating magical animals: "A Vim requisite, for the magical nature, is always required."

My first thought was that she would need the Vim requisite for the flying and the breathing fire (probably, even though she can do that herself anyway), seeing as how a dragon who can't fly and breathe fire is just an iguana that you glued two halves of a kite to, and where's the fun in that? But I'm thinking I might have been [strike]wrong[/strike] premature with that opinion, since it was under "Creo Animal" for creating a magical animal from scratch (and Vis), and she's turning into a dragon, not creating one.

And would the Animal requisite add a Magnitude? I think it wouldn't, but that any Vim requisite would...or possibly even two.

What do y'all think?

There was a lot of discussion on this type of transformation a while back, and I recall it as I was amid the heated discussion. I came to a few conclusions and options. IMHO:

A - there is a fundamental dependency on the desired intent of the transformation effect when deciding if Vim is required. Meaning that the Creo guideline is relevant if the form will have powers and a Might score.

If the form has powers alone, the powers can be added via additional spell complexity, or linked additional spell effect in the magical device without needing to add Vim as a requisite. This is because the Vim requisite is only needed for a huge set of powers (which is questionable) and when the dragon form has Might or MR.

In effect if you add the Vim requisite and some Mags for complex powers you are really designing a spell to turn into a true dragon rather than the shape and physical prowess of a dragon.

So we need to know if the ring is just a physical change, and also if it should even be closely bound by the Hermetic guidelines. I get the impression from the story that it is an old item; perhaps non hermetic or only quasi-hermetic.

B - a change of physical form only need MuCo/An only. Other MuCo spells don't pay Mags for the Animal req so this shouldn't either.

C - a dragon transformation spell will be around level 45 once you've added RDT considerations.

D - the Animal requisite does not add Mags...however the size and function of the form does, as does any consideration for considerable physical powers like flight, spikes, cold resistance, etc.

As example here (shameless plug) is a series of posts about transformation, different creatures, powers, the ramifications of MR and Parma (transformation-into-gargantuan-creatures).

In Part 3 there is a dragon spell written fully that is MuCo45/An.

I'll write something a little better worded when I get near my PC.

A simplified view (which may contradict something I may have said before)...

We are looking at Muto Corpus Base 20. Animal is a Requisite but does not affect Magnitude. R: Personal I presume. Duration is variable. Concentration? Sun? Target is Individual.
My instinct says to add a Magnitude or two for Size & Complexity. Take it up to at least 35.
As for powers...
I say winged dragons are like birds. They have wings and can fly naturally. I did craft magic flight powers for the drakes in our Besiary. But I did that mainly to cover my ass, and heaped some extreme speed to their flight. So I say there is no need for a separate flight power, any more than one would need it for changing into a raven. Firebreath is something she already has. So the spell really needs no enhancement with Vim or Auram or Ignem or anything.

However :mrgreen:
I would also learn (or incorporate if an item) effects to toughen & strengthen the body.

Excellent, makes sense Marko. Based upon that I think the effect might be:

  • Base 20 to "change into an aquatic for flying animal of max size +1",
  • +2 D: Sun. Perhaps this could be Conc instead with the device maintaining concentration. That works out roughly the same level anyway.
  • +2 mags for an additional 6 size ranks. A size 7 creature is massive, so perhaps a Size:4 (costing +1 instead) is enough?
  • +1 for a limited set of physical abilities. The saga might say that this is overly punitive in design, so it could be dropped but really depends on what is chosen. I like the idea of acidic blood, inbuilt weapons like spikes and claws, and a venom tipped tail.

This is what I wrote in the blog:

With consideration for the complexity being rolled into the size adjustment, and Concentration, the spell effect changes downward to MuCo/An 35.

Might I suggest dropping Tremere lore? Maybe make that a specialization of Order of Hermes Lore. And you should drop some xp into Mythic Europe Lore. Know a tiny bit of the big picture.

I was thinking not quite as big. More like a drake, Size +2 or +3. And it is up to Peregrine, but I am imagining more of a classic drake/wyvern shape
Base 20, +2 Sun, +1 Size, +1 cover my ass

Vibria's seasonal activities for the time since her last update. All this is already on the Magi Planner, and will be going on Vibria's Advancement page when I get around to it.
[tr][td]Autumn 1235[/td]
[td]Takes sabbatical from Andorra, begins her walkabout with Signmundo.[/td]
[tr][td]Autumn 1235-Autumn 1237[/td]
[td]Meeting the Vavel Dragon and Bride of the Vavel Dragon threads, two years of wandering Europe.[/td]
[td]A lot of things, that were spent in earlier posts.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1238[/td]
[td]Returns to Andorra. Wedding, honeymoon.[/td]
[td]Tbd (probably 2xp Exposure in something).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring-Summer 1238[/td]
[td]Rebuilding her lab.[/td]
[td]2 seasons of Exposure in Magic Theory (4xp total).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1238[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1239[/td]
[td]Has a son, Artur.[/td]
[td]2 xp Exposure (tbd).[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1239[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1239[/td]
[td]Study A Mystical Guide to the Humours.[/td]
[td]15 xp Corpus.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1239[/td]
[td]Study Dominion Over God’s Creatures.[/td]
[td]9 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1240[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1240[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1240[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1240[/td]
[td]Study A Mystical Guide to the Humours.[/td]
[td]15 xp Corpus.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Winter 1241[/td]
[td]Study On Transmutation.[/td]
[td]13 xp Muto.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Spring 1241[/td]
[td]Study De Animalibus.[/td]
[td]17 xp Animal.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Summer 1241[/td]
[td]Study Corpus Hermeticum.[/td]
[td]12 xp Magic Theory.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Autumn 1241[/td]
[td]Has a daughter, Maria.[/td]
[td]2 xp Exposure (tbd).[/td][/tr][/table]
Even with all those months and years studying Corpus, Animal, and Muto (and a season on Magic Theory), her solo Lab Total for the Dragon-Form spell is still only a 28.

Sometime very soon, either in Winter of 1242 (before the Ancient History thread) or after, she is going to inquire about having a Longevity Ritual made, for herself and for Jaksic. (He has a Supernatural Ability, I believe, so I don't think his LR would be halved.)

Her children's names were carefully chosen to be names in both Catalan and Polish (according to Behind the


I think you are right about the LR for Jaksic. The RAW states "Non-Magical People" and I think Jack does not qualify as truly non-magical.

As for your Lab Total, I suggest a Familiar or an Apprentice, or maybe both. And Lab customization can easily jump you up another seven points or thereabouts. Another shape changing spell, a traditional sort from RAW that we have or can get a Lab Text for, I do believe that would add it's magnitude to your LT. As an enchantment or familiar empowerment, the option for Expiry and the multiplier is an option. It is within range of a few more years, I am certain.
Or perhaps the hope of a boost or text could be inspiration for a future story :wink:

Or you could try a Mystery.
Mountain Wilderness Lore (Pyrenees) is part of the backstory of this saga, and has always been a quiet option. Your grandfather has hinted at that long ago. Very subtle. But he was not always a shapeshifter.
I think he has mentioned something about the Tarragon Mists.
However, that option will still take a couple of years.

Vibria is at least eight seasons away from being able to take an apprentice of her own (that's how many Arts she has that are <5).

She might be able to bind a Familiar at the end of the cycle. Her best TF is Creo Ignem, with a LT of 40. She could bind a Size 2/MM 5, Size 1/MM 10, or Size 0/MM 15 creature. Hmmm...possible a drake about the size of a deer? (And I could call him "Gleep"). Finding a suitable familiar would be a seasonal adventure. Winter of 1242 is probably out because (1) winter...ugh, and (2) she just had Maria and doesn't want to go haring off just yet.

I'd have to really go over the lab features to see what can give her the most bang for Spell Invention, Muto, or Corpus. She could Refine her Lab that winter and gain the Virtue that way.

She can do Cloak of Black Feathers in one season at the end of the cycle (i.e. Winter 1242) from a lab text if she pushes herself (not experimenting, more likely Overtime, as she only needs a +1). And she can stay inside where it's nice and toasty warm.

headdesk I can't believe I forgot all about the Tarragon Mists. That's worth exploring, as is this Mountain Wilderness Lore (Pyrenees) that never clicked to me.

You could also try for a smaller animal. A drake (size +2) or a Wyvern (size +1) would be level 35 at Sun Duration. (base 20. +2 Sun, +1 stuff). You would have all of the physical attributes, but none of the powers. That is okay since Vibria has her own powers.
Both of these creatures are in your lineage. If you Experiment, I will grant you a +3 Sympathy bonus. Dare you risk another explosion so soon?
Dealing with the mists means dealing with your grandfather, with your cousins, and your nephew the dragon-cat.
No need to alter development plans. This will be roleplaying.

This means that it ain't a personnal power, to me. You're trying to use it since Personnal power is cheaper than Lesser or Greater, but this is just semantics IMO.

Also, Spells that use Rego to unfaillingly propel something, like Wielding the Invisible Sling, have their range to the target, since the magic must guide the missile all the way. Vilano spells can make to with a range to the thing (so, something you touch), but then, you need an aiming roll.
This seems like the worst of both worlds: Magical Flame you need to aim AND penetrate with.

=> I'd go with a straight Lesser Power with Voice range (so, lvl 15), just like any dragon's breath.
Keep it Variable. I don't think that damage should decrease with range, too, and it adds uneeded complexity. It doesn't doesn't compensate the low cost for the range (although the double dip of Penetration + Aiming might)
OTOH, for me, base damage should be 10 + CrIg.

You don't need to bother with the flame part if you've got a firebreathing power, or can just cast PoF, even it it's without gestures.
For the flight, it's IMO covered if you use the "bird" base guideline.

OTOH, you'd need to add size magnitudes, unless you want to be a small dragon.
You might want to add magnitudes for complexity (tough hide, tail, claws...)

Look at existing spells to change into an animal :wink:

Ok, you guys arrived at the exact same conclusion. That's great! :smiley:

Gotta go, sorry, in a hurry!

The power is an (almost) exact duplicate of the fire breath power of a Typical Firedrake, created three-and-a-half years ago. Rego projection has been long established. "Voice" makes no sense in this context.