Vulcanus' Workshop

Refer to my above comments about how all humans divide up into multiple subgroups based upon any perceived similarity amongst themselves versus a perceived difference amongst others.

As was pointed out, this conversations would likely not take place. Which means Carmen would have to vent her feelings and frustration elsewhere or in another way.
She is really peeved about the things he said.

MY world has unicorns and giant robots.

But your world also has Bronies. I'm not sure that's an improvement :laughing:

Lay off the bronies man...
:laughing:

Oh lord, not you too Mark...

Joking, joking...
:laughing:
Honestly joking. My thing is Strawberry Shortcake.

He wasn't actually talking or even thinking about Gemma. He was referring to the tactics of street traders who loudly lament how the customer's counteroffer is taking food from their children's plates. The intent was to give Vulc an 'out', by Vocis pretending his very real bargaining incompetence was actually a bargaining ploy. Vocis clearly underestimated Vulc's incompetence. :slight_smile:

Vocis is legitimately confused at this point, because Vulc said he would have been willing to make an item for Mica, but asking him to make an item of quality was some kind of grave insult. The actual insult Vocis intended involved letting Mica choose her own item of quality. He intended to tell her about the arrangement and a bit of his reasoning behind it, then wait to see what item she chose. He trusted she wouldn't choose something frivolous for childish reasons, but if she did, it would reflect her understanding of returning an insult in kind and supporting a fellow Tremere. I was clearly reaching for much more subtlety than Vulc can handle. :slight_smile:

Vocis told Mica everything, including his full reasoning and the 'test' he had planned for her. Even with the negotiations ruined, there are still lessons to be learned about trading favors, handling insults, and dealing with arrogant magi. Vocis's take is that Vulc is too unsophisticated to understand Hermetic social interactions. Mica hears that too, not to mock Vulc, but as an illustration for how not to behave.

No, it would be a thousand times worse. House solidarity is paramount to Tremere in general and Vocis in particular. It's also extremely important to Mica, based on callen's background for her. Discussing this matter with anyone, especially someone outside the House, would be a betrayal of everything Vocis and (more importantly) Mica's father have taught her. If we're going to stick with the high school metaphor, Mica is the archetypical boring, straight-laced, home-schooled child.

(Sorry, I was responding to so much that I forgot to include Vocis's in-character response.)

Vocis stands and his demeanor becomes less formal (though I can't imagine Vulc will notice). I'm going, but I have a final offer. I'm concerned that you're alienating the rest of the covenant. I have no doubt that you are an unparalleled enchanter, but you need to find a way to relate to your sodales on a social level. I'm willing to help, if you'll allow it. The only thing I ask in return is that you consider this offer in the way it was intended - in friendship. He then turns and leaves.

I know Vulc is oblivious, but that offer was genuine. Vocis really does think that Vulc's attitude is detrimental to the covenant and wants to help him overcome it for the common good. Mica hears that too.

Vulcanus' expression softens. "And I'm concerned that you may be so wrapped up in your own intrigues and machinations that you've forgotten how to interact with others on a personal, human level. You saw me as a target to manipulate into providing what you need; that it never occurred to you I might have given freely without need for leverage or insults or lies, suggests that you are not nearly so socially adept as you believe." Vulcanus frowns sadly, thinking of another Tremere in another covenant, who always knew the exact right things to say but whose smiles never touched his eyes. "Those who only know how to "manage" or "handle" others do not understand the concept of friendship, but if you decide you'd like to investigate that particular phenomenon, my door is open to you."

(OOC clarification - Vocis hasn't been manipulative at all thus far. This bargain was the closest he's come, and he had to be provoked to even go that far. He's generally friendly, helpful, and a solid team player. I'm actually starting to view his role as the mediator in a covenant full of quick tempers. If Vulc distrusts him because he's a Tremere and/or because Vulc can't read people, that's cool. I just want to make sure you (Ryu) aren't assuming I'm playing Vocis as a manipulative Tremere politician.)

Vulc has no guile and is very easy to read. He wears his heart on his sleeve and can't understand people who don't do the same.

Vulc assumes that Vocis knows better than to tell a peer that his time is of no more value than an apprentice's, and believes Vocis would only have done so if he thought that offering insult was somehow going to get him more leverage. The entirety of Vulc's experience with Tremere has been watching Stentorius manage Fengheld (and most of the Rhine), so he's definitely projecting his opinions of the archmagus onto Vocis.

Vocis can pretty easily figure out (in retrospect, anyway) that if he'd just asked Vulc to make an item for Mica (be it an IoQ or an enchanted item or just something of mundane craftsmanship), he would have been happy to do so. He lacks the complexity of emotion to tally favors or "keep score." The one area where he does have capacity for subtlety, though: Vulc cares deeply about being appreciated but doesn't really care about being acknowledged. He knows he's exceptional; what he doesn't know is that he can find a place in the world where he belongs.

Vocis can find out through his House connections that Vulc spent most of his time at Fengheld being patted on the head by Stentorius, who always said the right things and always catered to the superficial side of Vulc's hubris. That worked for a good long while, but in the long run, that Vulc feeling like he was just a tool being applied to a job instead of like a valued member of the covenant. Vocis will also probably be the first person to figure out that the reason Vulc likes Vibria so much is that she's the only person who looks at his work and sees its value, as opposed to just its worth in time and vis; her appreciation boosts Vulc's deeper sense of pride, the positive side of it.

Vulc can be handled by boosting his ego, but he can be befriended by appreciating him and valuing his willingness to give freely of his time and expertise. Ask him for a favor he doesn't have to do, and he'll feel appreciated. Try to convince him he's getting a fair deal with an equal exchange of time between himself and someone vastly inferior in experience and skill, and he'll tell you to go jump off a cliff.

I'm still not sure exactly how Vocis said that. He asked for an item of quality of Mica's choosing, making it clear that he knew such an item would be a relatively minor undertaking for Vulcanus. I (the player) don't understand how the original counteroffer was 'Mica's time is equal to Vulcanus's time', especially when you're telling me that Vulc was willing to make an enchanted item, IoQ, or even a mundane item for Mica.

Now this makes perfect sense to me.

There was no element of scorekeeping even implied. Vulc asked for a favor. Vocis asked for a favor in return. Vulc went ballistic, while saying he was willing to do more than Vocis requested. The only 'sneaky' component of Vocis's counteroffer went right over Vulc's head and wasn't what set him off anyway.

Vulc asked for a season of Mica's time in exchange for a season of Egon's time and casting a complex ritual for Vocis. Vocis' counteroffer was a season of Mica's time in exchange for a season of Vulcanus' time-- as though the two things were of equal value. That's what made him indignant.

But when Vocis quipped "I actually believed your 'lost without my venditor' act," that's when Vulc got pissed. He's still in love with her, and that wound is still raw.

Yup. Vulc didn't understand the vast majority of what Vocis was getting at, so he just chalked it up to "that Tremere stuff" :laughing:

It was the implication that those two favors were somehow an equitable trade. A season of a magus' time is worth more than a season of an apprentice's time, by any measure. Our time is worth, at minimum, to the amount of vis one could pull in that time; in Vulc's case, that's 4 pawns per season, and in Mica's that's 1 pawn per season. So the way Vulc interpreted that whole exchange, he said "Hey Vocis, can you save the covenant coffers one pawn of vis? I know it's an inconvenience but I'd be happy to save YOU a pawn of vis in the future, and also, I know this useful ritual that I can't believe no one wants, I should have just spent BPs on my lab instead of wasting the extra BPs and vis on being able to provide this benefit to other magi." Vocis said, "Sure, I'll save you a pawn of vis, but what I think would be a fair exchange is you giving FOUR pawns of vis to my apprentice, oh, and by the way, your ex-girlfriend, LOL."

I get this part of it. What threw me is he (and you) said he would have been willing to enchant an item for her, which would have taken the same time as what Vocis suggested. Vocis basically said 'could you spend a season making her an IoQ?' and Vulc responded 'You jerk! I would have spent a season doing even more for her, but I'm not doing it because you asked for it and Tremere are shifty!'

In all honesty, I completely forgot that Gemma was the venditor to which he was referring. I'm also not sure Vocis even knew that, since he was never involved in the Caduceus discussions. Still, this certainly explains Vulc's reaction.

His response was more like, 'You jerk! I would have spent a season doing even more for her, but I'm not doing it now that I know you don't value my time!' but basically yes :slight_smile:

For the record, if Carmen bitched against Vulcanus, Arachné would have followed suit :laughing:

For what it’s worth, I did a post on this just before going away.

As far as I can tell, it seems you can't use that base for flying, but must instead use base 05 (“move the target slowly in any direction, even if unsupported”), with extra magnitudes for speed.

How do you get to that?

Let's say, for exemple:
Base 05, + 2 magnitudes for extra speed, +01 touch, +01 Conc = lvl 25.
Add uses per day, items maintain concentration, whatever, but these do not count towards the spell level for warping or dissipation purposes. So it seems to me you can do it without problem, unless I'm missing something?

If it is too much of an hassle, don’t bother, though. Arachné can probably craft temporary carpets, and should be able to invest one more easily, since she’s better at herbam than vulcanus. Better for him to concentrate on his strengths.

I missed that. Totally agree. The carpet is affected by a Rego effect that moves it around. It can certainly hold it, too.

Yes. It's in the rules for ranges on ArM page 11#. The range is the range to the target at the time of casting. Afterwards, the spell runs its entire duration, even if the target away.

Well, this can certainly be a restriction borne of experimentation. I’d explain it that way, at least :wink:

Are Vocis and Vibria the only two getting armor made?

And does anyone want weapons?

Hmmm...
Alexandro may want to commission some magical shields for the grogs. Simple lesser enchanted devices with Aegis of Unbreakable Wood. Vulcanus can crank several out in a season. You can either go with Constant duration (lvl 14), or Item Concentrates with Unlimited Use (Lvl 20, but the ability to switch it on & off comes in handy)