Wands in combat

I believe it has been discussed in relation to other topics, but I have a question about (magic) items in combat:

When I hold my wand of 'much trouble to mine enemies' in hand during a fight with a demon and his mundane minions, my (very high) parma is up and I have a nice personal demon ward, what happens if:

  1. somebody without a might score swings a sword at my wand?
  2. said demon (I'm warded) swings a sword at my wand?
  3. said demon tries to magically destroy my wand?
  4. this demon's bigger brother (who bypasses my warding, but cannot penetrate my parma) tries to magically destroy my wand?
  5. a diabolic mage PoF's my wand (he cannot penetrate my own parma)?

Just to clarify where the wand is in relation to different types of personal warding.

  1. is there a big difference if the wand is my talisman?

"Magic resistance keeps magic away from the maga, her clothing and other items that are very close to her"p85

That's the only guide that I found. I'd say that anything extending more than 5cm or so from the body would be unprotected.

Although I don't think that the book says it, I'd have the ward effect the same entities/volume as magic resistance.

yes, "the talisman is considered to be a part of you as long as you are touching it...This also means that your magic resistance covers your talisman completely."p98

I remember seeing somewhere the example of giving a zombie (resisted) a sword (not resisted) to get around Parma. On the other hand I would say a ward would block any weapon held by the warded creature. I have no authority for this at all but I like the picture.

I would say that any sword summoned with a demon or carried by one (as opposed to picked up by one) would count as a part of a creature with a might score.


Ok, i'll give you my OPINION on the points, i won't pretend its canon.

  1. somebody without a might score swings a sword at my wand?

if he hits he has a chance of disarming/destroying the wand, you have no magical protection against this.

  1. said demon (I'm warded) swings a sword at my wand?

If its a sword he was summoned with, its resisted by the ward as if it was a hand attack, if its a standard sword he just picked up off a dead guy, then your wand is in trouble (see point one).

  1. said demon tries to magically destroy my wand?

Your wand is in trouble. Your parma does not protect it unless he happens to be a talisman, and your ward doesn't stop magical attacks.

  1. this demon's bigger brother (who bypasses my warding, but cannot penetrate my parma) tries to magically destroy my wand?

Same as 3)

  1. a diabolic mage PoF's my wand (he cannot penetrate my own parma)?

The wand is in serious trouble, assuming its made out of something that a pilum can destroy. It isn't protected by parma unless its a talisman.

First of all: happy new year!
Then: thanks for the replies.

A standard 'ward against the fairies of the water (ReAq)' protects against water-fairy stuff. That does include fairy magic, doesn't it?

Yes, but your wand needs to be included in the warding effect. Which means a R: Personal, T: Ind. spell would protect only your body and mind, not your stuff (IMO). To ward you and all your gear I would think you'd need R: Touch, T: Group (or T: Circle). Serf's Parma (meaning I don't have my books handy so please be merciful if I misremembered something).

I know it leaves some doors wide open, but IMHO you should take 'the feel' behind the rules as guideline. That is, your clothing should definately be protected by your own warding, as should armour (and IMO held stuff like weaponry, but that's definately a grey area).

But to those advocating only body and mind is shielded and equipment is totally different: if I put on a full bodysuit, covering evey bit of me, I cannot be targetted by mentem magic, since there is no 'line of sight.' Nor can I be PoF'ed, the clothing should be removed first.

that's not how I would like to play/run the game.

There is this RAW spell for pulling wooden weaponry from people's hands. I would personally like it if such spells have to penetrate a magus' Parma before they can just pull that wand from their (-2 strength) fingers.

A ward against demons also wards against mundane attacks made by those buggers (IMO even if they pick up a sword from somebody else). So that demon's sword is considered part of the entity warded against. I would say that my targeted 'sword breaker spell' should have to penetrate his resistance aswell then when I want to destroy the weapon.

This is the greatest extent I can find as to the description of the effects of wards. The protection given to individuals isn't really detailed however I find it of note that the ring wards are protected vs. both direct and indirect action of whatever they ward against. I'd say it is logical to extend this same degree of protection, vs. both direct and indirect actions, to the individual ( and indeed any other target of ward spell for consistency ) target as well. This would mean that one could not simply bypass the warding by picking up a sword or what have you.

As for the reach of personal magic resistance...

If you are holding a wand I'd say that very easily counts as 'very close' to you, and thus is a protected item. This however changes with a ward of Individual target.

Here my personal inclination is to say that it 'should' protect the same... but unfortunately the text says otherwise. There is no mention of even the 'very close' class of protection. So anything you are holding is fair game to the demon with an Individual target ward. It just can't hurt -you- in any way. An upgrade to group target would get this 'chink in the armor' fixed as has been stated.

I quick point on what you said Vortigern.

Not quite. The circle ward description that you posted doesn't say anything about protecting anything inside the ward from that warded enemy using direct or indirect attacks. It merely says that the warded beastie can't cross the ward barrier and can't disrupt the circle. A ward vs humans would allow arrows fired by a human to strike people inside the ring. It would also allow humans with spears to jab anyone inside the circle, assuming they could reach them from outside. What it wouldn't let them do is use the spear to scratch out the circle or such like.

A personal anti-human ward should therefore stop a tavern drunk punching you or a guard from grappling you or attacking you with a brawling weapon, but he could certainly stab you with a sword or spear, loose arrows at you and drop rocks on you.

When it comes to supernatural beasties wards are obviously more helpful. A warded dragon (REALLY powerful ward) couldn't eat you, swallow you or claw you. I don't know whether it'd stop you from being burnt to a crisp but unless someone can show a bit of the RAW where it says otherwise, i'd say it doesn't protect from his breath.

A sword summoned along with a demon is, i.d rule, defacto a part of that demon and is hence warded. A normal sword he picks up isn't. A smart demon will very quickly work out a way to kill you despite you ward. A hipogriff or chimera, maybe not.

Personal wards i'd also rule cover whatever parma covers. And since parma specifically doesn't cover your kit (other than clothing, jewellery and stuff very close to the skin) i'd rule that a wand isn't covered. This is one of the advantages of a talisman after all, its protected by your parma, even if its a sword or staff.

"Warded things cannot act across the circle no matter which side they are on,"

If the quote is indeed correct, then RAW do say otherwice.

English is not my native language, but to me this seems very clear. Stabbing with a spear or breathing fire or throwing stones is all "acting across the circle". So if I have a Circular Ward Against Humans, they can't touch me.

OTOH, I read this as being a special power for wards with Target: Circle (probaly granted by the mystical properties of circles). If I have a personal ward I would allow simple tricks as using a sword or throwing a rock.