Warding System Against Weapons

While reading through various sourcebooks, I’ve found that many wards against weapons feel incredibly powerful. Take Halt the Piercing Shafts from MoH, for example. A level 25 spell can make a magus entirely immune to ranged weapons for two minutes; make a few adjustments and this spell could easily be cast daily alongside a Magus’ Parma and render all mundane ranged threats pointless.

I considered a few options before settling on an idea that I like. Initially, I considered expanding upon the Muto Corpus guidelines for adding soak (in short, every 5 levels of a spell adds +1 soak for the duration of the spell). The two primary anti-weapon abilities I’ve considered would be Rego Terram and Rego Herbam to repel incoming blows. Because these spells would be specialized, I considered making them comparatively more powerful (so +2 or +3 per 5 levels). Ultimately, this again felt too powerful. With some specialization (and considering Terran’s +2 magnitudes for metal), this could still create long lasting spells fairly cheaply that would suggest a meta of casting Sun spells daily for essentially permanent soak spells. God forbid a Magus combines a MuCo spell and a ReTe spell to end up with large amounts of soak they walk around with constantly… Magi should be squishy!

I ended up with the following idea. I’ve added new general guidelines to both ReHe and ReTe (again, with added magnitudes for metal). Per point of base level, a single “warding point” is added to the magus for the spell’s duration. These warding points are hit before soak is hit and serve as a magical shield that can be overpowered by consistent attacks. If a magus has ten of these warding points and is hit by two matching attacks for 7 and 6 damage accordingly, the first would be negating (leaving 3 points left) and the second would be dampened, allowing only the 3 remaining points of damage to get through.

These wards could be cast with a sun or even moon duration, but are designed to work around diameter durations. That is to say that, anticipating combat, a magus would cast one of these spells to provide him some extra protection at a reasonable cost that doesn’t simply render them invincible to all attacks for two minutes. I’ll drop some examples at the end.

Does this invalidate other warding spells, then, such as ReTe’s level 15 guideline? I don’t think so. Across many discussions on this forum regarding wards, I’ve seen several mentions of wards that must be used against an attack the magus knows about. This makes sense to me, as. I might use Wizard’s Parry (MoH), for example, as a fast cast to entirely block an incoming attack. Likewise, Halt the Piercing Shafts could be used similarly. Therefore, I think these guidelines provide a balanced method of adding soak to ward against attack types without making a magus invincible while still allowing a trained magus to fast cast blocking spells.

House rules can certainly refine these guidelines for each troupe. Maybe only a single type of this warding spell can be used at once. Maybe each base level adds two or only half of a warding point. Maybe these wards pose other issues, such as a magus carrying something made of metal or wood.

Examples:
Ward Against the Blade
ReTe 25
R: Self D: Diameter R: Personal
Provides 10 warding points against incoming attacks made of metal.
(Base 10, +2 to affect metal, +1 diameter)

Ward Against the Bow
ReHe 15
R: Self D: Diameter R Personal
Provides 10 warding points against incoming attacks made of wood.
(Base 20, +1 diameter)

These can be adjusted for longer durations, the ability to affect an ally or allies, etc. My initial idea was that these two are balanced in that the metal spell still affects metal arrowheads, but is more expensive, while the wood spell cheaply blocks arrows or spears mostly made of wood but is useless against axes. You might opt to require a Herbam component for arrows and spears.

I’d love to hear thoughts! I spent a decent chunk of time trying to find a good balance of utility, cost, and power levels while still following the magic system.

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Yes, and that is fine. The real threats to magi are rarely archers and more systematicaly warping point, time and botches. There are plwnty of ways to make oneself safe from archers (CrAu is another). Mundane archers are a terrain feature, it is the enemy spell caster who poses the risk if a fight breaks out.

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I like where you are going here, though I'm a little concerned about tracking warding points. Its a complex game as it is.

if I were going to change the rules I might change the Rego Herbam / Terram guildelines to be more like the Rego Ignem guidelines - The ReIg guideline lets you ward yourself against a certain strength of fire, rather than just all fire. the ReIg base 4 guideline wards you against a +5 fire (gives you +5 Soak vs. fire.) Adding magnitudes lets you boost the soak vs. flames. So Ward Against Heat and Flame, as a level 25 spell gives you +15 Soak against fire. (Base 4, +2 for up to +15 damage, +1
Touch, +2 Sun)

You could say that ReHe base 4 gives you +5 soak against wood in the same way. So a touch range Ward Against Wood would grant +15 Soak. A Personal range one would give +20 Soak. Probably good enough to stop almost any arrow, but some grog might get lucky.

All that said, I'm not sure that Halt the Piercing Shafts and similar warding spells really are something that every magus is going to cast every day. First of all, they cause warping as constant magical effects, unless they are designed for the caster. Learning a spell from a Lab Text does not count as designing it for yourself. Your magus would have to invent the spell themselves, but that actually takes a considerable amount of skill. A Rego Herbam (Terram) Lab Total of 32 is needed to invent the spell in 4 seasons. That's a big investment.

What makes warding spells even more hard to have "always on" is that they aren't intelligent. A warding spell does not know the difference between a sword attacking you and a knife that you are holding. See the examples of Repel the Wooden Shafts and (especially) Ward Against Wood in the core rules. You are suspended slightly above a wooden floor by the later spell, because the spell is "protecting" you from the floor. In the same way, a spell that ward against swords (in my campaign at least) will also make it very hard to hold a knife and cut your dinner. You don't want to have it on 24/7.

Wizards will want to use these spells in dangerous situations, and that's ok. To Medusa's point, magi in Ars Magica are not squishy. A combat oriented magus who has a few minutes to prepare should mean a very bad day for a gang of bandits.

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This statement is incorrect in at least one way:

“Designed for/Cast by subject” I read that slash as an OR.

But I think it is wrong in a second way, I believe that when you invent from a lab text you actually are inventing the spell yourself and can choose to have it “designed for” a new subject.

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To complete what @dc444 said, when a mage use a labtext, he invents his own version of the spell and he can choose to design it for a specific target. The only occurrence when a mage would learn a spell without researching is if he would learn it from another mage - it is not specified in the rule, but IMO, it is the rare occurrence where a mage is not reinventing a spell.

Second, yes, a mage that dedicate some effort will be beast in the battle field: two wards (against metal and against wood) would make it nearly untouchable. Toss in a ward against human and animals and he is safe from all dangers. The main risk on the battle field are going to be combat botchs - this is the deadliest opponent.
But if a mage pick up Puissant and/or Affinity with Single or Two-handed weapon, Cautious (with the appropriate weapon), a minor focus on personal wards (because it is scattered across many forms) and possibly Puissant and/or Affinity with Rego, he deserves to be a battle monster.
It cost more virtue points than Flawless magic or Life-linked spont magic, considered by many as some of the best virtues. He earned it!

It is a valid concept and it will shine in some niche circumstances. Go with it.

A lot of mages don't want to see a battlefield, so won't bother investing in such spells, and will make sure they are not put in a situation requiring ward spell: they will get intel to prevent being caught, they will have fly, teleporting or invisibility at the ready and they will make sure they have a shield grog or two to have time to cast those live-saving spells if they ever get caught.
Then they will gather more info and design the perfect spell(s) from the confine of their lab and there will be one, single deadly strike.

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Regarding wards, here are the guideline:
ReHe 30: ward against plant products. No soak, just plain immunity
ReTe 30: ward against metal and gemstone. No soak, just plain immunity
both are from the Flambeau chapter in HoH:S

In both case, those guideline are for +1 Touch, +2 Ring, Circle.
So the base guideline is level 15, so Pers, +1 Diam, Ind for a final level 20, makes the mage immune to the appropriate warded material for 2 minutes.
At level 25, it has sun duration, so the mage won't get caught trying to renew it on the battlefield.
It is part of the game.

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Not in Ars Majica.

There is no balance amongst the 3 character groups in Ars Majica. Magi have more utility than companions, who have more utility than grogs.

A combat magi is meant to be terrifying. A starting magi who focuses on army destruction could create a target group, range sight, version of Ball of Abysmal flame, master it to level 5, cast veil of invisibility, then start raining fiery death, killing around 500 people a minute, and there's very little the enemy can do about it. Good luck trying to find a shadow without a body, amongst all the explosions. I will concede this would be a very focused magi build, but easily done.

The right magi, with a little preparation, is meant to be nearly unstoppable by anything except other magi, strong fae, divine or infernal. Even the "wrong" magi with enough prep time can commission some items to fill in any power gap.

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Thanks for the correction!

you also won't like this. It's actually much worse since, AIUI, a simple Persona ward against humans should, like the ( circular) ward against demon does, make all humans "unable to (...) or harm those within it"

A long time ago, I noticed, and wrote that. it may be of some interest to you:

There are some incongruities in Ars Magica 5 with Wards:

  • Terram has 2 guidelines for it, the lower of which requires to be conscious of the attack.
  • Ignem has no "Ward" guideline, but uses "Control (element) in a slightly unnatural fashion" to do it.
  • There are some active spells, such as "The Wizard's Parry" or "Deflect the Wooden Shafts", which work at a range greater than Personal, and allow you to completely deflect an attack you target, not unlike an active defense, compared to the more passive wards.

So, in order to reconcile this:

  • When a "Ward against xxx" guideline exists, it provides +15 soak, but repels all material of the warded form, with the exception of previously worn or help materials that could be considered "Personal" and covered by the Parma. Adding one magnitude allows to concentrate to selectively pick up something, which may become "personal" then
  • Any "Control (element) in a slightly unnatural fashion" allows for +05 soak, if you're aware of the attack (meaning you can freely pick up items)
  • Any additional Magnitude gives +05 soak to Personal Wards.
  • Any "Control (element) in a slightly unnatural fashion" allows a spell to completely deflect a targeted attack (This is consistent with the guidelines used in such spells). The spell must either be Voice or greater range (like Repel the Wooden Shaft) or be fast-cast (like Wizard's Parry), and, contrary to the "blanket defense" of the Wards effects above, requires each separate attack to be specifically targeted.

This allows for 3 type of spells:

  • Deflect Spells, where you target an attack and parry it
  • Shield Spells, where you can block an incoming attack, gaining a soak bonus against it.
  • Armor Spells, where you gain a general soak bonus against all specific damage.

Additionally, since the guidelines say Stone OR Glass, Metal OR Gemstones, wards are specific enough, in that a ward against metals won't protect against Stone or Gems, and a Ward against Water won't protect against Acid. This makes total invulnerability more difficult, which makes shield grogs more valuable, and gives both defensive and offensive magi an incentive to learn a wide range of protective spells.

At least, Ars Magica being coherent, it appears that, with the notable exception of Auram, whenever these 2 guidelines are present, they are separated by 3 magnitudes. This only introduces one change to the rules, which is that Ward Against Heart and Flames requires you to be conscious of the flame, while reconciling everything else into a coherent whole.

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From another thread (not my post):

:smiley:

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