Wards Vs Multiple Realms

Is there a way in RAW (or by reasonable interpretation of RAW) to create a ward that affects creatures form multiple realms? Presumably by adding a magnitude to the spell to affect all realms, or adding one magnitude per realm added? I have most of the books, but I can't find any reference to this or anything similar. If I missed something please give me a page number.

There is LoH p.27f The Tome of Binro, containing an experimental Ward Against Woodland Spirits which, by adding a magnitude per Realm, works "against all creatures with a Herbam-based Might Score, irrespective of their supernatural realm". Such an approach, while useful as an experiment, results in useless spells: their levels are far too high for their effects - and they still need to penetrate.

The Minor Hermetic Virtue LoH p.14f Confluence of the Realms would be useful for your magus. So ask your SG, whether she wishes to play the saga with your magus, where that Virtue can be earned.

Cheers

Can MuVi change the realm affected by a spell? If so, is it a superficial, significant or total change?

You'd need a lot of Mastery of the original spell and the MuVi spell, (and a good concentration score), but you'd end up with co-located wards affecting different realms in a single MuVi + main spell casting?

Thank you, I had either missed or forgotten that. Since it would be rare that more than one additional realm is needed at any given time (magic and faerie are the most common combos I would want), I could work with an extra five levels. The mage in question that would be working on such a spell has Flawless magic, life boost, and a minor focus in wards, so he can get impressive penetration totals when he needs it.

Also, canonically, there's a ward in Covenents (I forget the page, but it's in the Lab section) that describes layering multiple versions of wards into the same spell, simply by adding magnitudes and requisites per effect. The effect in question does something like creates a ward vs. mildew, vermin, fire, and scullery maids, all in a single effect.

But, as OneShot implies - none of these spells need to penetrate, so it's fine to have them as a single effect. If they did need to penetrate, it would be an issue of efficiency.

So...yes. Even without additional virtues, you should be able to do this. (This may be a case of the playtesters not being aware of the precedent described above, in Covenents.) Does the virtue allow you to hit additional Realms without magnitudes, or does the virtue give you those magnitudes for free? If there's a conflict, then it's a GM call, I assume.

EDIT - note that even 5 levels of a ward may be an issue, as that's the difference between a lvl 25 (normal) effect and a lvl 30 (major magic, causes warp). Which may or may not be an issue for casting circle/ring spells (depending on how your troupe defines how warp works in these circumstances), but it's something to be aware of.

If you're ADDING an additional effect, then it's probably a significant change - as that requires a +1 magnitude to do normally. If you're simply CHANGING the effect from (say) Magic to Farie - well, then that's changing the implementation of a guideline. From what I recall the last time this popped up, I THINK the MuVi guidelines don't actually mention that one. (If they do...well, then that's what it is.)

But on the basis of it not being mentioned, I think I argued for it to be a Superficial change. But, again, in thinking back to the last time this came up...I think it comes down to the definition of a single word in one of the MuVi descriptions...something like "does not change the meaning of the spell", or something like that. It suggests that any implementation would be a significant change, I think. But to answer that one, I'll need the books in front of me.

Nothing in the LoH text suggests the new virtue is required to create the effect. The Original Research rules (from HoH:TL) result in effects allowed by the existing rules, along with a stabilized discovery of some magnitude. That's probably what this Ward is, a legal spell that also produces 9 points towards integrating a new virtue. It's only through use of the Hermetic Integration system from Ancient Magic that effects are produced with expanded scope prior to acquisition of a new virtue.

Ah, so it's just a stabilized discovery. Gotcha. (Don't' have the book in front of me currently.)