Warping from constant effects from a Talisman??

Just wanted to confirm my understanding... A talisman/enchanted item that has a constant effect (lets say, a constant endurance of the berserker for example) - till grants you that 1 point of warping per year. Right?

Sam W.

Yes, Anything that constantly affects you will give you warping. Even your longevity potion will give you warping of 1 point per year.


It's a good reason to not put constant effects that affect the owner into a talisman.

If it's also a 'powerful mystic effect' i.e. high magnitude spell, does it then give extra Warping? It won't necesarily be designed specifically for the talisman's owner, it could be something he also wants to affect others with sometimes.

Note that you can design a touch range spell to affect yourself primarily. That way you don't get warped but others do.

It seems too easy IMHO then, to avoid being affected by such Warping. How can the effect be designed for you, if it affects everybody else just as well? And which effects are ten not designed for you? Is the question whether or not you invented the thing yourself? And would it matter whether it's an original invention (aka the hard way, from scratch), or re-invented from a lab text?
Perhaps it should only be R:Personal spells, since these can't affect anyone else?

Or is it just effects like Longevity that really are designed specifically for you?

I don't think it's too easy, really. Magi are, in general, not warpd by their own spells. That would be suicidal, after all. A healing spell cast by another magus, or shapechange or what-have-you might cause warping. Presumably a magus uses themself as a template when inventing a spell unless specifically doing so for another and thus the incidental warping is minimised. A spell designed for yourself only avoids the high power warping though, not the long term or constant effect warping. A magus who habitually spends his time as a giant dragon of fire, unless he's a Bjornaer with many initiations, is going to end up very warped.

"designed specifically to affect you, or cast by yourself".

Your Talisman is close enough to you to count as "cast by yourself" -- which protects you from powerful effects in your talisman, but still does not protect you from constant effects.

In RAW, this distinction never matters (other than to the Lab Totals of course): a lab text is like a do-it-yourself guide, allowing the invention of a spell much more quickly than otherwise, but you're still inventing it yourself. (Your own sigil, rather than the other maga's, ends up in your version of the spell, for example.)

When developing a spell or effect a magus can design the spell or effect so that it does not give "powerful effect" warping to a selected target. It still effects whomever the magus targets, it just is tweaked so that the designated target isn't warped if the designated target is hit by the spell.

Also a magus does not suffer powerful effect warping from his or her own spells. The relevant rules are on page 168 of the core book. The text says "Anyone subjected to a powerful mystical effect...unless they themselves are responsible for the effect" I think that extending this exclusion to a magus' talisman is questionable, I could argue the other way from Caribet.

What strikes you as "too easy"? How would you like the magi in the game to have to work harder to avoid warping?

On the other hand, every effect in a Talisman needs to be invented by the owner, so there is no reason not to make any effect that targets the owner "customized to specifically target the owner", if you want to. Of course, constant effects still cause Warping to the owner.

Nope, I'm convinced now, that the mechanics are good as they are. It was just a brain fart. It's just that I really detest playing with a players, who constantly plasters his magus with smallish booster and protective spells. But making it more difficult to avoid Warping by own spells isn't an answer here. Plus, the distinctin between inventing originally, re-inventing from lab text or being taughs spells (really re-inventing, based on the teacher's input, right?) is slight to none - you really do invent your own version,m with or without some help or guidelines.
Only way to make magi work harder to avoid warping from own effects, would be to demand extra book keeping, and really differentiate spells and items. And claim that only projects invented without lab texts and only R:Personal would count as this.
If Talisman effects count as spells cast by yourself, and it should IMHO because of the connection between magus and talisman, what about other devices? Having such things run constantly with ongoing effects, shoiuld that cause warping? Or would it be a matter of whether you invented it yourself or not? Propably.

I guess to answer to the players who are constantly boosting themselves with small effects is .. in the rules, no?

Each of those effects is going to be constant - unless the player spends time casting it prior to the situation .. which is very inefficient.

So if every morning, the maga casts endurance of the berserkers, a bonus to soak, a fly spell, a fire-warding spell, a strengthen-my-clothes-spell, a sensory-boosting effect etc.. that is .. 4+ warping points per year not including botches, longevity rituals, etc....

Sam W.

Sure, but why have all of them active in the lab? You only need all those spells active when you leave home. That is one way to cut down on their frequency.


Salvete, Sodales!

I do not really see the problem. Ars is a game about Magi who are significantly more powerful than most non-magi, and magi are called magi, because they use magic. So, if a careful magus sets out for a dangerous mission, I would be surprised if he didn't prepare for some problems beforehand - sun and moon duration spells are really helpful. The system includes some clear rules, how long per year he can stay under mystical effects without acquiring warping - so if he is careful and doesn't activate the whole combo each mornig and evening out of habit, he should be fine.
Sure, some magi will never think of this - but somebody who has been in a tight spot a couple of times or has been trained in the appropriate way of thinking wouldn't enter a potentially dangerous area without some helpful spells - just as the knight wouldn't set out without his armour and weapons.
Anyway, those who are always 'on guard' will warp, and for those who are not, the SG is free to run some stressful encounters while they don't expect trouble, if this leads to a good story.

Alexios ex Miscellanea