Warping Points and Twilight Effects

I'm considering playing a Criamon magi and so have taken to examining the warping and twilight rules a little more closely. I'm confused on some of the details.

For example, page 88 of ArM5 core states that a magi must roll to avoid twilight if he gains two or more warping points from a single event. I'll call these Triggering Warping Points (TWP). On page 89, under "Effects of Twilight", it states that magi also gain a simple die roll's worth of warping points as an effect of twilight. I'll call these Additional Warping Points (AWP). The magi also gains additional good or bad effects due to twilight. The strength of these effects is determined by "the number of Warping Points gained." Is this referring to TWP, AWP, or TWP+AWP?
The Darius twilight example is not clear on this. In fact, it does not clearly state that Darius rolled for AWP. How have y'all been handling this?

Criamon are more likely to enter twilight, due to their Enigmatic Wisdom. Due to AWP, a Criamon magi seems likely to approach Final Twilight at a faster rate than others. Have any of you Criamon players experienced this yet? How much faster, on average, do they approach Final Twilight?


The AWP were, apparently, never meant to be there in the final version. Now that they are, the line manager stated he isn't sure whether to amend the example or delete that sentance (removing the AWP).

As they stand, the rules appear to me (and to him) to indicate that "the number of warping points gained" refers to TWP alone. This probably means some of the table of effects will never be relevant; so be it.

The effect of Enigmatic Wisdom on the maximum age of magi is rather small according to the statistical analysis of ArM5 aging/longevity/twilight I've seen. (Can't locate it unfortunately, Google is failing me here.)

In the ArM5 chapter "Effects of Twilight" I read "number of Warping Points gained" as "number of Warping points gained through the Twilight", so as TWP+AWP.

Kind regards,



I remembered it was in Durenmar, but couldn't find a link from the Article Index.

Thanks. :slight_smile:

That was also the way I understood it, but something didn't quite make sense.
When did was discused on Berklist; David Chart clarified that the effects of twilight should only take the triggering points into consideration.
in our Saga we feel sort of bound by what we have done up tp now, so we might go with the much more severe TWP+AWP. Our magi might live sorter but more interesting lives....

If you follow David Chart on the Berklist, do away with the AWP alltogether, and thus get a lot less Warping points from a Twilight, then clearly you have also less experience points in skills or less spell magnitudes lost after it.

But before we remove the AWP from 'canon', that rules change suggested by David Chart should first be made available to the wider gaming community by being added to the ArM5 errata.

Kind regards,


I rather got the impression it is more likely he will amend the example, which is peripheral to the rules, rather than change the rules. So I am betting the AWP will remain.

If you by that means that the effects of twilight, (in the form of xp/abilities /virtues or flaws lost or gained) will be significanly less severe, then yes!

Note that David didn't actally suggest that the "AWP" should be removed. He admitted that he wasn't quite pleased with the simple die, and that he had wanted to change the twilight rules in that respect. But it stands as is. With the clarification that only the triggering points, and not the simple die should be counted when determining the "effects of twilight".

Hmmm - that sounds very muddled to me: isn't the die rolled for additional Warping points part of the effects of twilight, and also introduced in the chapter 'Effects of Twilight'?

Don't bother, though. The more I think of it, the more irrelevant this entire issue of the Berklist discussion on twilight effects and its tentative representation on this forum becomes.

That's the way I shall keep it for now anyway. If the issue is clarified in some errata, I will think of it again.

Kind regards,


Pardon me, but this is an excellent suggestion.