Weird Size Question

So, let's say I enchant a wagon and make it my Talisman. Or maybe something like Gwydion's tree Talisman in MoH. Does this magus become a bigger Target when touching his Talisman? For example, what if an enemy magus casts a PeCo, T: Individual spell on Gwydion while Gwydion is touching his Talisman. That Talisman is part of Gwydion, meaning that part of Gwydion is bigger than the rest of Gwydion by a longshot, and far beyond the normal size restrictions for a Corpus Individual. Is Gwydion immune to this PeCo spell due to size? Or do we use Gwydion's size and the riding tree just may or may not get affected by things depending on if they make sense for the Form?


But I think you might be reading too much in “considered to be a part of you”. That phrase is followed by how this specifically applies to the Magus: your Personal Range spells affect it, Personal effects inside it can affect you, you are considered to be touching anything it is touching , and your MR protects it as long as you are touching it, even if it’s a wagon or a ship or a hut with chicken legs.

Nothing about that suggests you can get out of being targeted by a PeCo spell, for example, even if being hugged by Fangorn the Talisman; unless the spell effect could affect the Talisman as well because it has the right parameters, it wouldn’t be able to affect the item.

Of course, it is possible you could hide in a sufficiently large Talisman, to avoid being targeted, or instill some effect to meld with it, etc.

Now I wonder, if I give a Talisman the power to turn into a creature...what happens if it’s slain, but its physical form is not destroyed? You just reactivate it if you have uses remaining? But I digress.

Yes, those are things I was thinking about. But also, consider Leap of Homecoming. Usually you can bring your Talisman with you because it's part of you, right? Of course, then there are Bjornaer who transform and whose Talismans don't transform with them; that I know for sure is written in HoH:MC. Overall I was thinking the same as you, but I didn't want to lead readers in any direction to leave other replies more open.

As for your other thoughts. Yup, done or working on those. I had a magus who set it up so he could merge inside his Talisman (which was also his Familiar due to some cleverness with corpses as objects and the particulars of ghosts and living corpses). Multiple times I have considered putting a magus inside an earth elemental, but I haven't gotten around to that. I now am looking at turning a Talisman into an animal and riding it, which is bound to bring up more questions.

even if your talisman was small enough to carry in your pocket, it may be part of you but it won't be affected by the spell because it isn't corpus material. Unless your wagon is made from human bones the target of the spell is your body, not your entire magical being. Now bringing your wagon along for leap of the homecoming may be allowable, since it explicitly does affect the talisman... or your storyteller might require a He corequisite.

To get rid of the requisites issue, we could consider an Imaginem effect. If you use T: Individual, does that hit both together? Only both if they're small enough in total? Neither if they're too big?

Silveroak, do you know where that is written, the explicit bit about Leap of Homecoming?

Hmm. Good question.

Instinctively, I'd like to say "no". Because saying "yes" opens up a lot of tricky issues, including "can Gwydon then be affected by Herbam spells with a Corpus casting requisite, since he's effectively all tree and little flesh?" and "do you need T:Part to affect only Gwydon and not the Talisman he's touching with e.g. a PeIm spell?".

However, even a "no" has problems. For example, a small magus can then affect a Talisman without size modifiers, at least as long as the effect targets both talisman and magus.
Perhaps more importantly, I do not see a strong "intrinsic" reason why the "no" should prevail.

The easiest solution would have probably been to say that talismans must be significantly smaller than their owners. But this is obviously not the case, and would have ruled out several interesting characters..

I relied on the previous poster. However, I will note that in the decription it indicates that personal range spells will affect the talisman, and personal range spells in the talisman will affect the caster. Nothing about spells with greater range affecting both. So it would appear that if someone else is targeting you (or the talisman) then you are not considered to be the same thing.

A lot of troupes rule that personal teleports drag your clothes requisite-free along with you. I remember that Transforming Mythic Europe actually has a bit of a sidebar discussing what requisites are required (and IIRC it says 'troupe decision'). So I would assume your talisman goes with you unless your troupe also has you arrive naked.

I kind of want to build that whether or not the storyguide rules it...