What effects go into a Talisman?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

So, your mage is big and bad, and has a big, bad Talisman, full of juicy effect. What effects went into it? Some magi would have uniquely personal effects, but I wonder if there aren't some that are more or less universal - or if not a specific effect, then a certain "class" of effect.

With a generic mage with Magic Theory 8, let's say it was opened for ~16, so maybe no more than 160 levels of effects, give or take. (Yes, more is easy for some, but some are eager to get started!)

Ones that jump to mind are:

o Leap of Homecoming (or something lesser, a "Marines, I am leaving!" effect that ignores casting penalties and botch chances (well, there's still Finesse, but still...)

o High Penetration Attack (or perhaps a small variety of them - Physical attack, vs Spirits, DEO, depending on custom and concerns.)

o Wards against X, Y, Z, (and as much of the rest of the alphabet as possible).

o High Penetration Intellego (What the hell is that?!)

o Other "Save my bacon" effects, of any variety.

2

I think a talisman has one real advantages as an enchanted device: bypassing Parma (although most groups ignore this). This means that it pays the most invest all sorts of short-duration (probably Sun or less) personal buffing effects into it: wards, sense-enhancement, defense-enhancement, soak-enhancement, strength-enhancement, fly or maneuverability effects, and escape effects. Longer duration effects will induce Warping, so are to be avoided. On the other hand, a familiar's bond offers the same advantage, and doesn't cause Warping at all so the duration can be extended into constant effect.

There is no real advantage to investing it with high-penetration effects - these could fit into other items.

There is no real advantage to investing it with risky effects, to avoid botch chances - this can be done by other items, too.

Bottom line - it is probably best to invest effects that you want to activate for short durations on yourself (not needing your familiar to activate them). In some borderline cases, having just the right bonuses or whatnot, investing other powers might also be a good idea, but that kinda specific to the magus.

  • Leap of Homecoming.
  • Partially-harmful defensive effects, like stoneskin MuCo(Te), or common sense ReMe, or metal/wood ward ReTe/He, or invisibility PeIm - things you'd want to activate in combat, but not to have on constantly.
3

I didn't think you needed much penetration on Intelligo? Generally illusions don't interact with Parma Magica at all?

Bum - I was thinking Imaginem - ignore me...

4

Good point. Although Intellego spells must be imbedded as unlimited uses instead, to avoid scrying.

There is the +5 talisman enchantment bonus. If it is bigger than additional boni by form and shape (limited by MT), the effect better goes into the Talisman.

Other items may give additional form/shape bonuses
It is a strategical question. Is it better to have one thing or many? One thing is easier to watch, but easier to steal. It is easier to open a talisman for further levels of enchantment, and boni from previous spells can add up significantly.

My favorite meta-magic talisman spells:

  • A combination of two spells: one watches out for spells cast by the owner, the other one maintains them. This allows the user to cast spontaneous spells of day or longer - but he only has to pay concentration duration. It also reduces the risk of losing the spell because the usual concentration roll can be avoided
  • watching ward (for the leap of homecoming)

Two of these are really useful (but players usually just ignore them):

  • a muto spell that gives the item another shape (so you don't have to carry around your warhammer at the king's party - a ring is much more subtle)
  • for shapechangers: a muto spell that adapts the Talisman if the wearer changes shape. Must be combined with a spell that "watches" the magus (Perceive the change from Falke in GoTF, or similar). It is also useful to change the equipment along with it (I usually change the belongings into a small ring hanging from a bracelet/neck collar).
5

I'd put a few effects effects into a talisman rather than into a separate device almost immediately just to get a few attunements.

I agree that a talisman is in general not the place for a high penetration effect. The Talisman s going to be with you for ever, there is no sense in filling it full of stuff that is going to be obsolete in a decade or two.

One effect to put into a talisman is a mind reading spell of range personal (because personal effects on a talisman can target the magus) and duration concentration modified with item maintains concentration (so it's not on always and the item doesn't warp). Then you can use environmental triggers for the other effects in the talisman.

Another enchantment is one that changes the item to a more durable form (say solid steel version of the item, or a small pebble) also with duration concentration and the item maintains concentration modifier.

6

What my mages always do with their talismans

  1. Durability. If wood or other breakable thing, make it as hard as steel. Make that steel unbreakable (MuHe/Te). Ypou want the talisman to last, after all.

  2. "Get my sorry ass out of this tight spot, even if I am not able to do it myself" spell. Generally a leap of homecoming with an enviromental trigger, but a MuCo spell to transform into a bunch of rats or piggeons (for example) can work as well.

  3. "protect me". Summon some combat worthy stuff that will fight for you. That can be a pack of wolves, or a series of skeletons.

  4. Spells I want to cast discretely. Subtle trigger in subtle spells. mentem and imaginem effects, in general. Perfect for casting in a dominion aura and do so without attreacting all the attention to your persona. Could be invested in other devices, but having them in a talisman is just cooler :slight_smile:

  5. Aimed spells. The bonus of a wand to aiming is quite a nice bonus.

Not necessarily the best combos, but the ones I regularly use.

CHeers,
Xavi

7

The shape bonus would add to lab total. As an attunement, the owner would add this bonus to casting totals for spells that he cast. Can you somehow get a bonus to the finesse total for aiming? How?

8

And a Rego spell to bring the Talisman immediately to hand.

Whether the mage is naked and stripped of all items (by some plot device - possibly carbonite, possibly mere betrayal), or it's simply lying in a nearby corner while the mage uses the chamberpot, some scenes will have it not currently welded to the usual hand.

Also reduces the significance of most thefts.

9

As an item of quality, I think you could actually make something that would increase the 'aim' (ie finesse), but you're right, aside from that, as far as I understand the rules, it shouldn't.

10

That's brilliant, I now have the idea of a verditious who takes one commission every four years to "item of quality" a single talisman or talisman to be and every four years the biding war gets bigger.

11

Another idea (which is admittedly munchkinny):
I invest lots of low level effects into a talisman in one season, to get lots of attunements (the rules say that this is per enchantment, not per season).

As a storyguide, I'd set the minimum effect level to 10 to avoid abuse.

12

"but you can only invest one new attunement per season" p.98 center column around the middle of the third paragraph.

13

Don't forget you can put those Muto Vim effects in there as well...

14

If you initiate into the mystery of the consummate talisman you'd be foolish not to stuff your talisman full of wizard's boosts and the like. For a normal talisman the muto vim spells can be a good call (the talisman's great capacity makes them more useful there than on other magic items) but the fact that a muto vim spell in an item can only target other powers of the item, not spells that the magus casts makes this a balanced option not a clearly superior option.

15

Only if you've got the Greater Mystery "Greater Talisman". So, normally, no, you can't put those R:Pers MuVi effects in. Confer the MuVi guidelines, you can't those into items.

16

IMO, I'd say:

  • No penetration effects
  • Defensive effects
  • intelligence effects
  • Travel effects
  • MuVi effects to change the previous effects baed on situation and need.

This may vary depending on your saga, but, as, IIRC, there's nothing stopping various spells effects to have the same trigger, this may allow you to cast a bunch of different spells at once.

There's also the interesting fact that items allow truly permanent effects, without lapse at sunrise/sunset. Alghough there's warping, of course :laughing:

17

You can put them in but they can only target other effects that the talisman produces

18

Except the rules, of course.

Page 100, bottom of col i: "You can use one effect from one item each round, using the appropriate trigger action for each..."
So, for instance, you couldn't create a Crystal Dart machine gun that launches a dozen separate identical spells with one word, nor triggers one of each of the 12 Form-wards all at once.*

(* If you had one Ward with multiple Forms included via Requisites, that would work, np.)

If a mage had an identical trigger for multiple effects, it would probably either be random, or the same one (first/last enchanted, whatever) would trigger every time. Either way, not the best plan. :wink:

(Given the above rule, I've never read the "Linked Trigger" (p 99) as allowing what you're describing, esp since nothing of the sort is described in the example. At best, that would cascade, starting a string of effects at one/round.)

19

yeah that rule has come up as an issue previously on this list. I think that there were some really irrational results in a few situations that made it painful to not dump it, and no I don't recall what they were. Yet keeping the rule you could still wire up the talisman with an intellego mentem and give all of your effects linked triggers.

20

There are canon effects that seem to trigger simultaneously, like the Bjornaer change-when-I-do in HoHMC. I don't remember such examples in the core book, but my memory may be failing me. At any rate, simultaneous triggering appears quite reasonable for a number of effects. it does seem to be the case that linked trigger could allow multiple effects triggering at once based on this approach, but I think it's wiser to rule this out and say only one "real" effect can be activated per turn (not counting the trigger-effect as one). I don't think it's entirely RAW, but I do think it's best.