What if Hermetic Theory really gets more advanced ??

After reviewing the fine HMR sourcebook which has just landed in my lap, besides heaping abundant praise upon the developer and the writers, top-quality stuff as usual, I am musing and wondering:

Reasoning from the assumption that any Mystery secret and any non-Hermetic magical secret ever published in any sourcebook does factually exist in the ArM setting, even if it's not yet known to the Order at large.

At the current state of magical advancement, it fairly safe to affirm that many, if not most, of the so-called Lesser Limits of Magic have been proved to be nothing more than limits of insight and development in the RAW flawed current state of Hermetic Theory.

The Limits of Aging, Arcane Connection, Creation, Energy, and Vis have all been definitely shown to be surpassable by the integration of the appropriate non-Hermetic magical insight. There is less definite but strong circumstantial evidence that to some degree this might also be true for the Limits of True Feeling and Warping as well.

In all likelihood, with the passing of decades and centuries, the Order shall eventually manage to incorporate pretty much any insight it can from non-Hermetic traditions, extinct or alive.

So I would wonder where such an advancement would leave the Order, and what about the remaining Lesser Limits (Infernal, Lunar Sphere, Soul, Time) ? Is there anything really, provably special about them, to think of them as aspects of the Greater Limits, or this assumption has been definitely discredited after having been proven wrong about 5/7 other Lesser Limits ?

And let's make a little thought experiment. Let's assume an Order, sometime undefined in the future, which has successfully integrated and spread the mystical insights from most non-Hermetic traditions. Nothing too world-changing, so let's assume that the Hermetic Breakthrough shall be eventually coming, but are still studied in the labs. Let's say the Order has mastered the following Discoveries:

Event Duration (Defixio magic) (Minor)

Fertility Ritual Magic (Fertility magic) (quasi-Major)

19 years Duration (Hyperborean magic) (Minor)

Hermetic Rune Magic (Vitkir magic) (Major)

Subtle Opening (Folk Witch magic) (Minor)

Ritual (Charged) Items (Folk Witch magic) (Major)

Cailleach (AKA Diedne) Magic (Gruagach magic) (Major)

Flexible Formulaic Magic Spell Mastery (Gruagach magic) (Minor)

Unaging (Gruagach magic) (Major)

Let's also assume that either Initation scripts to develop any of the above Virtues are widely available in the Order, or the second Major Breakthroughs to integrate them fully have been done as well. Bonisagi are still slavering day and night in their labs to unlock the secrets of Unlimited Range, Vis-less Permanent Spells, Energy Magic, and Improved Voice Range.

How all of this would change the Order magically, socially, culturally and in the daily life of a magus ? Which exotic supernatural abilities would magi typically choose to learn, in addition to the Hermetic Arts ? How often would they "breed" apprentices, and which traits would they choose ?

I think you need to ask one question at a time. This is too big of a list for one person to not write a research publication to answer.

Hah! You've actually touched on one of the foci of our current saga.

We have an unusual group of magi who willingly trust each other and work together, and we're determined to expand hermetic theory as much as we can.

Thus far, we've founded a "university of magic" of sorts where we seek to unite all forms of magic around the globe into Hermetic magic theory, from new abilities and arts to new forms of magic, and altering lesser limits...traditions and houses be damned.

It's practically a delusion of grandeur, and WILL eventually get us in a spot of trouble, but that kind of grand thinking is what sagas are made of!

About this old thread, what I can tell is that since at the time it got little feedback (admittedly maybe I loaded several ideas into it, but I see them all interconnected), I went through and thought out a complete rewrite of the Order based on the idea that a string of breakthoughs for integration of exotic magic, both ancient and modern, reshapes the Order both magically and socially.

It is fairly but not yet really complete (I have yet to complete writing notes about some Houses), but it shows several major interesting twists: the Order's ranks swell massively, the Order really gets more accepting of exotics and non-Latin magic, it comes to regard mundanes as main threat instead, a couple Societas Houses evolve into Mystery Houses, the Code is rewritten, a certain Lineage House with a penchant for Latin supremacy becomes the House in the doghouse (pun intended).

Cool. When you've got something complete please post it.

A campaign that decides to travel to Persia during or just after the Schism war would have a profound impact on hermetic magic.

Then again they may have their own Magi in Persia...

Some links to Persian Scientists from that era, take them with a grain of salt though (some articles needs some citation):





Post 1220 many texts will be "lost" for a while, as the Mongols put an end to that golden age.