What kind of troupe playing are you practicing?

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hello,

I´m interested in the kind of troupe playing, you are practicing with your groups. I think there are some possibilities and I´d like to know them.

Questions:

  1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)
  2. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?
  3. How many grogs does your covenant own?
  4. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)
  5. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?
  6. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

I´m asking, because I´m starting a new group/saga and actually me and the players are thinking about this things.

Thanks for your answers.

Chiarina.

2

Each of us has one magus, one companion, and an arbitrary number of grogs. This includes the alpha storyguide, who ends up storyguiding about half the total stories since we play troupe style.

We try to establish as many relationships as possible between characters of different players, so they'll have a reason to be in the same story together. We also try to establish a reason why the magus and the companion of each player do not hang around a lot (see below).

It's gone from a minimum of a dozen, to a maximum of about ... 60? But keep in mind these are mainly non-fighting types: servants, laborers, specialists. Fighting grogs... we went from a minimum of 3 to about 20.

Most grogs have one player. We find this allows for more consistent roleplaying. Also, in this way each player can "customize" the characters he'll play to his heart's content. A very few grogs are "shared".

Most of us have a lot of fun working out grogs, so all our grogs are completely statted out. It's not really such a big burden.

We strive to have each player play one and only one "major" character (either a magus or a companion) plus any number of grogs (usually 1 or 2, but we've seen it all the way up to 6). As I mentioned, we really try to have reasons why the magus and companion of [strike]every character[/strike] EDIT: the same player should not be in the same story. A very few times, however, it ends up making perfect sense that they'd both be in the same story, in which case we allow it (in most of these cases the player got no grogs, however). Conversely, sometimes it does not make sense that everyone's magus or companion should be involved. In these cases players with no other character play grogs, usually several but sometimes only one.

3

Wow, ezze, I didn't know you were in my troupe?
Could you drop a hint at the table tonight?

More seriously

1 magus per player. Beyond that it varies a lot, though we recommend having a companion or grog, for when your magus isn't that interestedin the story - or away somewhere else.
We recommend having multiple grogs, sometimes even on the same expidition. However since our players vary alot in degrees of experience, nothing is really mandatory.
We also have a history of playing each other's apprentices.

Not usually, though sometimes they develop organically. Like the necromancer/gravedigger pairing :unamused:
Doing so isn't a bad idea though.

You know, I've kinda lost track of them myself, which is annoying, since I was trying to keep track of our economy.
We lost 2 about 2 weeks ago though.

Typically, people play grogs they've made themselves (though sometimes that means opening the core book on p. 22 and comming up with a name).
A few grogs have been statted up but never played I believe.

... and that's how I lost track of the number of grogs we have ...

We try to encourage 2+ people playing grogs. Grogs are much more fun when they get to grumble and bad-mouth the magi behind their backs. And slack off ofcourse!
There seem to be some reluctance to playing a grog along with a non-grog character, but it's not a big issue. WE have been known to promote grogs to companions, usually after they do something big and epic. We had a grog who killed a dragon in a now dead saga. He was promoted to Companion after that, but spend most of the rest of his days getting free drinks off of that story and never doing anything nearly as awesome.

4

My players only have one magus atm, and no covenant. Once they establish their covenant, they will have to man it, and eventually at that point, I will let them create new companions that would have reasons to join, or use the grogs they have recruited. This process lets them discover the lore and learn+understand the magic system rules without having to learn the lab rules, covenant rules, etc. at the same time.

...

That is, if they don't manage to burn the abbey in the scenario they're currently playing 8).

5

In the Alpine Apprentice Saga, seven players each have one PC, an apprentice, currently between the age of 9 and 18. We do not have companions. The PCs are split up among three covenants, but see each other at social events throughout the year, and in this way are able to have "adventures." There's an Alpha Storyguide who runs about half the sessions and three Beta Storyguides who, between them, run the other half. Or so.

https://sites.google.com/site/hboarsmagica/home

This system will persist until everyone passes their Gauntlet or goes Out Of The Story, and we move on to Season Two. This is expected to take about six months in real time, or about 12 more sessions. If we get to that point, I'll ask folks to start making Companion characters, and everyone will go off to found a covenant, probably in Hibernia.

6

IMS, players each have a magus, one or two companions and a pool of communal grogs which are created by myself or any of the players who wishes too (we ignore the finance rules in 'Covenants' so a few extraneous grogs here and there aren't a serious problem for us unless it's going to serve as the hook for a story.

7

Hi there Chiarina,

This summer I started to SG an Ars Magica campaign and I am the only SG, though I will try to share some answers.
First I have to say that I started to SG my players as 8 year olds, who came to a covenant and they have had 1-3 "adventures" roughly every year. Last Saturday, they were sworn in as full Magi at the tribunal of 1214.

This far, we have limit us to only 1 apprentice per player, and each parens was a Story Guide Characters as all players were newbies to the game. But now that they will leave their home covenant and build up one of their own, I have told the players that if they feel that they want to, they can make Companions.

Of Course

None, but it will be around 20-ish (6 players)

Not decided yet, maybe

Probably the latter, but if said grog becomes important to the story for a reason, i might "upgrade" it to a companion.

This far, everyone has played an apprentice, except that in one gauntlet, one player played an NPC that was vital to one that went through the gauntlet.

8

  1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)
    In my current and last game PC's only had a Magus character.

  2. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?
    N/A. No companions.

However, were I to run, I would require everyone play the companion for the person to their right.

  1. How many grogs does your covenant own?
    Previous game, 30ish, this game, 100ish

  2. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)
    If players want a personal grog they can have one

  3. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?
    In the previous game shield grogs got stats. As the ST I would write up stats everynow and then for something.

  4. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

All Magi all the time. It worked in the last game because everyone took gentle gift. this game, we'll see.

9

1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)

One magus, one companion to taste. Alpha SG does not have a magus, but might play/control a potent familiar or similar.

2. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?

Yes. Either this or have companions as a core part of the covenant. The important part is making sure that the companions have an excuse to be hanging out in/with the covenant, and to make sure the companions' story flaws actually matter to the covenant.

3. How many grogs does your covenant own?

35 fighting men and about ~100 covenfolk.

4. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)

Common pool. All the grogs go on a wiki, with character sheets, and are updated every 3 years as per the 'Grogs' book. Grogs that die get replaced as and when - often by characters who have a history within the covenant (e.g. son of the brewer, daughter of one of the fishermen). Some grogs have 'first dibs' rights, such as shield grogs - we try to pair shield grog and magus on the same player unless the story would benefit from them being controlled by two different players.

5. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?

We have personalities and core stats for the most important dozen. Everyone else just gets made up as required, but once made up goes into a list/record so we can keep track of them and how old they are. Ages are auto-calculated; the advantage of having a saga wiki!

6. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

Early on in the saga it was normal to see either every magus or darn near every magus head out and involve themselves in every story. As the saga progressed, magi started staying at home and eventually we started to see a lot more one-two magi plus companions/grogs or even pure companion/grog stories.

Number of characters per player varies by story, and specific details can vary by scene. For example, if a group of grogs, companions and magi have headed out on an adventure and one of the companions says 'I take my squad of guys and investigate the ruin' then for that scene everyone might be playing one of the squad of grogs going with the companion.

We've also done role reversal stuff, where the players take the role of the bad guys except for the one or two players whose characters are involved in the scene, or the players take on roles related to but not directly involving the actions of the players - such as a conclave of Bishops, a gathering of Archimagi or a group of nobles receiving the king. One player might have a companion along if appropriate, or may not. It depends on the scene.

10

Thank you for your answers. Here is the procedure of my Provence-Saga (and the open questions for my new Rhine-Saga):

  1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)

In my Provence-Saga every player owns one magus, one companion and 5 grogs (we have 6 players). Sometimes a character dies, then the slot of the dead character will be filled again as soon as possible. Seven characters per player is a lot of stuff. The initial idea was to man a small castle-covenant, where all attenders are PC´s.
The players of my new group need at least 3 hours to make their magus. We don´t have enough time (and perseverance) to make more characters before the starting point of the saga. That means: the game will be different.

  1. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?

In my Provence-Saga we never thought about something like that. Our companions have a reference to the covenant, but only in exceptional cases a reference to a single other character.
Some players in my new group proposed that. I´m wondering, if this limits the practised compositions of a troupe. ("Ah, Magus A is going on a troupe, so of course Companion A is going, too..."). If we create companions this way, that means: the game will be different.

  1. How many grogs does your covenant own?

30 (see 1.)

  1. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)

In my Provence-Saga the players are old, hardboiled gamers. They don´t quit old customs without a reason. So, every character had to be owned by a specific player (the only imaginable solution for imminent shallowness of the characters: they all need a player that cares for them like a mother...).
In my new group, the interest of the players for the less important grogs doesn´t seem to be very high. That means: the game will be different.

  1. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?

In my Provence-Saga all our grogs have stats and are learning, aging, developing reputations etc. (...even the kitchen staff).

  1. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

Again: In my Provence-Saga the players are old, hardboiled gamers. They don´t quit old customs without a reason. So, in a story you have to play one character, not more (the only imaginable solution for imminent shallowness of the characters: they need all the undivided attention a good mother can give). Because there are more grogs in Mythic Europe than Companions and Magi, the troupe constellation had to mirror this. This is the reason for the fact, that the standard troupe consists of one magus, one companion and 4 grogs. Only in special stories (tribunals for example) more than one participating magus is allowed. This means, in a story the players are playing grogs most of the time. If you have your magus in a story, it is a special moment: it is YOUR moment.
In my new group, the interest of the players for the less important grogs doesn´t seem to be very high ("Uaaah, I don´t want to play a shabby grog, only"). That means: the game will be different.

For now, everything seems fine, but I´m a little bit nervous. The games looks so different with this different composition of players.

Chiarina.

11

I missed that before. Here come my answers for the 3 sagas we have played most recently: Mann (high power level; we had around 100 pawns vis income per year), War against Davnalleus (we played hedgies) and our new triamore saga, that is about hedgies as well.

1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)

1 magus per player. Except if tyhe player does not want one. I, for example, as alpha SG, tend to play companions when I play, since I do not like playing lab rats. However, in the last manx saga I played Maris from the MoH book since his presence in and out was easy to justify, and I had great fun with him.

Companions are diverse. We have had as few as 1 and as many as 12, since our sagas tend to be long and characters come and go. Generally one per magus is the norm, though. In the hedgie sagas they were far less common, though.

2. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?

We try to stablish multiple character relationships so a companion and magus may or may not come along. The central feature tends to be the covenant, but we end up playing soap operas, so inter-character relationships tend to be common. Sometimes the soap opera makes some of the "killer combos" unfeasible, since the characters dislike (or even are actively trying to kill) each other.

3. How many grogs does your covenant own?

Mann: 20
Davnalleus War: 10-1,000, depending on the moment. 1000 were quite usual for the pitched battles
Triamore: 35

4. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)

Grog pool. We tend to give them one or 2 REALLY STRONG personality traits so everybody knows how to play them. Generally the personality is blank until one player comes along and grabs one of them for the adventure. We are less serious with grogs than with other characters.

5. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?
Grogs refer to a small set of common stats. Young warrior (age 15-25) --> veteran warrior (age 26-35)--> old fart (35+). All have the same skills and combat totals for the category. We have 10 categories all in all IIRC: Grogs do not earn experience but refer to their basic set of skills at a given age. makes life easier for us and does not affect the overall performance of the grogs much, really.

6. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

Players decide what and who to bring to the story. More than once only grogs, or grogs and a single companion have been sent to investigate something. Sometimes the SG decides on the party composition by dropping the part in the middle of the road already. Players tend to switch between characters in the middle of a scene rather easily. It took us some years to get used to this, though.

12

Questions:

  1. What kind of characters and how many do the player own (one magus? one magus and a companion? one magus or one companion? etc.)

All players except one (who lives a long way away) have 1 mage and 1 companion. There are some NPC mages and companions too, but they play a lesser role and slowly are being phased out of the setting to make sure the players are in charge.

  1. Do you try to establish personal relationships between the magi and the companions with the consequence of Magus-Companion-duos?

No

  1. How many grogs does your covenant own?

There's about 18 men-at-arms types plus servants for the castle and manor.

  1. What do you do with the grogs? (do the players own the grogs, too? is there a pool of grogs, accessible for every player?)

Grogs are shared around: no one owns a particular grog, though players probably have their favourites

  1. Are all grogs worked out with stats or do you have a "kitchen staff, not nearer defined"?

Fighting grogs are worked out, as are some scribes, there a brief details for some other the other grogs and some are just a name.

  1. How does the cast compose if you are playing a story? (does everybody plays a magus or companion or is it possible that some players are playing only grogs (or even only one grog) in the current story? is everybody playing only one character or is it possible that a player plays multiple characters in the current story?)

Usually there are about 5 players with 3 mages and 4-5 companions on any one adventure. So some players will have two characters and everyone likely has at least one grog. When a player is missing another player may get to play their character if that character needs to be involved.

I am the only storyguide.