Whispering Winds, and Two-way communication

In the main 5thEd book, "Whispering Winds" InAu15, apparently fits poorly into Hermetic Theory.

So I was wondering on opinions as to whether it was possible to make a version of the spell that permitted bi-directional transmission of sound?
So that a mage could cast a spell to talk with somebody they could see, even if the target person was on the other side of the valley.

I think the conventional way to achieve that is to use two spells. Each spell can either push or pull, i.e. either receive (Intellego) or send (Creo).

Doing two-way push would mean affecting two targets at once, which is somewhere between too hard to bother and impossible without a break-through. The group target is not applicable when the two people in the group are miles appart.

Two-way pull is even harder, because pure Intellego can only grant senses to an individual. To affect a group, it is Mentem and a bunch of requisites.

Combined push and pull from one side would also require requisites, at least Creo with Intellego or vice versa, to the point that two spells is going to be easier in every respect.

That said, you can do it.

When it comes to the non-Hermeticity of Whispering Winds, I think the point is that in Hermetic Theory it should be an Imaginem effect. When you can do it with an Auram effect, it is singular legacy effect which cannot be varied without a breakthrough.

YSMV

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I've seen folks (Ok my npc's) use creo imaginem to make sounds. A whisper or soft voice at range sight is only level 4 and if you aim just outside their parma, it isn't resisted.

If you are not talking to another magus/maga then you can listen to a target at range sight duration diameter with creo imaginem at level 5.

So while you'd have to use imaginem rather than auram you could do it at a much lower level. I agree with Loke's take on the non-hermeticness and on the YSMV.

Since the NPC is an Aurum specialist, I have decided that he has created a Rego Aurum spell "Whispers on the Breeze" that is Sight Range, Concentration Duration that carries his words (or any other noises he makes) to someone in sight.
I think that should be equivalent to controlling a minor weather phenomenon - so Base 2. But with a Finesse roll required.
Won't work if it has to go through a stronger weather phenomena.

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I like that. ArM is famous for having more than one way to skin a cat. Auram magus does it one way, Imaginem guy does it another .

Is it? Don't you have to add a magnitude for intelligible speech? Thus level 5, for a momentary spell. I think comparable momentary spells are described as about two words.

But ok, level 10 for a longer speech is not particularly hard either, unless you are a starting magus trying to spont it.

Isn't it though? If I create a magical fire, it is resisted. Why would a magical sound not be?

Best re-read HoH:S p.63 Mimicry: Making Illusionary Objects, which contains:

Mimics are not resisted by the Parma Magica, because their species are not magical.

This does not exclude magical species - but these are pretty rare. See e.g. HoH:S p.67f Miniatures: Tricks Using Perspective, especially:

A magus doing this is targeting a victim with a magical medium, so these spells are resisted by the Parma Magica.

I missed the magnitude for clear speech.

Momentary . I was stretching to two or three seconds, so as many as four or five words when spoken quickly. That seems enough for communication, albeit with difficulty. I was shooting for the lowest level possible.

But while we are at this. Last time we had a need for AC range communication, we used Creo Mentem, which only some of the magi had the arts to penetrate with.

Can you extend your CrIm proposal to AC range? It would then be L10 for momentar. WOuld it still be unresisted? Or would the fact that the species have to travel through the AC all the way to the receiver make them magical?

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If it specifically targets a magus it is going to be resisted. If it targets am AC that the magus has sitting on a table in front of him it won't be. But that second option takes either timing or some contraption to keep the AC within hearing distance, (aka. a grog).

The spell creates an image ( or whatever the correct term for an audible image is) which, in turn, generates non- magical species.

So to Tellus' point a magical fire generates magical heat while a magical image generates non magical species. Yup that's sort of inconsistent. It's a game mechanical kludge so magi can see illusions while they're protected by their parmas.

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I'd spent quite a few time trying to figure out how to exploit that to create CrIm attack spells, but so far I got none. So it is inconsistent, yes, but doesn't really unbalance anything.