Sorry - just trying to find the rules that state all healing spells are rituals.. because I notice all Creo Corpus/Creo animal spells are rituals..
Sam W.
They have to be rituals because their effect is permanent. Healing with formulaic spells is possible and there is such a spell but the effect of formulaic spells can be only temporal. At the end of the spell the wounds will reopen.
You could create a Chirurgeon's Wound closure. This spell heals a light wound for duration sun. It would have +10 to level since it is no longer momentary and will basically have wound healed until duration ends.
It would be great for getting your wounded folks back to the covenant without wound penalties or recovery rolls for stressful actions bothering them (Bind wounds prevents need for recovery rolls but does nothing for the wound penalties).
To permanently heal a wound requires vis like any other creation spell to be instant and permanent.
I wonder if it is possible to duplicate the application of medecine/surgery with Rego X magic?
Medicine, probably not.
Surgery and other Chirurgy applications: Yes and there are examples in the A&A book. You need a good finesse roll though or you have problems.
OK, so what you're saying is that many many Perdo spells should also be rituals, because their effect is permanent. For example, The Wound That Weeps isn't a ritual.
I also didn't find the rules regarding to healing magic needing to be ritual and I see no sense that it should be so, so as a troupe we've ruled in the favor of ligc, and against the rule.
Hope I've helped.
Creo spells that create a real non-magical object or substance (in this case flesh) are by default rituals.
See Limit of Creation (ArM, pg 80)
We thought that made it too simple and instead chose to allow natural healing at a more or less reduced rate during the spell Duration if extra magnitudes are added for it.
Healing Spell that allows 1/8 rate natural healing while active +1
Healing Spell that allows 1/4 rate natural healing while active +2
Healing Spell that allows 1/2 rate natural healing while active +3
Healing Spell that allows normal natural healing while active +4
Meaning if you make sure to have the spell last long enough you dont have to use ritual for it.
And even if its too short for complete healing, the subject will get better as long as the spell has at least Sun duration. Moon Phase, Moon or Season Durations are good for healing spells...
No, that's not how it works. The Perdo magic comes in and does it's work, slashing open a gash on your victim for instance, and then is over. Time doesn't wind back to remove the wound. Creo works by returning the wounded thing to a more ideal state, in the case of wounds the ideal is to not be wounded. If you apply the magic for Concentration duration, your target loses the wound until you stop concentrating, and then the magic stops and the body reverts. If you want the restoration to be natural, and that's what's being done here (the idea of "permanent" isn't that helpful), then you need to use vis within a ritual context. The effect is then momentary, in as much as the magic is present for just a moment, but the effect of the ritual is lasting as the change is made "natural" by using vis.
Bear in mind that creo and perdo work differently by design.
And in any case, there are creo guidelines to aid the natural healing process, it's just that when you want to heal something in an instant, that instant has to come at the end of a ritual.
No, that's not how it works. The Creo magic comes in and does it's work...
Ill have to call that a less than ideal explanation... Permanent is very "helpful".
You use Vis to "seal" the spell permanently. Without the "seal", the effect is only real as long as the spell actually lasts in Duration. To create or improve something that doesnt disappear when the spell ends, Vis is added.
And the idea is that Creo is different from all others in this.
I do however agree with Bacha that at least for some types of "destruction", Vis and ritual is needed for permanence, ie spells that "mindblanks" someone for example, because that is an effect that the target will eventually "oppose" successfully if given the chance, selfhealing in such a case is the norm, meaning its the essential nature to not be "mindblanked", meaning a spell to maintain such a state should require ritual and Vis or stop working at the end of the spell duration.
:mrgreen:
Healing has been considered an act of creation in the game; thus, it is limited by the Limit of Creation and requires a ritual.
I can see an argument for letting magic heal things that would heal anyway. Minor wounds and the like. But a gaping hole in your innards wouldn't heal naturally, so it clearly has to be Creation. Same with lost limbs and the like. Since the game doesn't generally specify exactly what a given would represents, its easier to just declare that all direct healing is Creo and, therefore, needs to be a ritual to be permanent.
Think of it this way:
Creo: You are creating new skin, new flesh to cover the wounds over. This requires vis to be permanent. Creating anything requires vis to be permanent. If you don't use vis then the curing effect only lasts as long as the spell.
Intellego: No intelligo spell is permanent for the magic. Many are momentary because you get information and then it ends but there is no way to make the magic permanent. Best you can do for some spells ins year duration for informing you of events.
Muto: Never permanent, max is 1 year with vis
Perdo: Damage effectively permanent and is done. Damage doesn't get undone when spell ends. Time does not unwind. Perdo stops destroying at end of duration.
Rego: Permanent in that whatever is moved or controled happened and is not undone but control itself ends at end of duration and again 1 year is max.
Because healing is creating/perfecting, it requires vis to act. Something is there that wasn't there before, the healed flesh. Now creo spells that assist in healing rolls also only last the duration but they are helping the body heal itself: bossting the natural process that for their duration and so add to the wound recovery roll. I guess you could say that is permanent without vis but that still takes normal and natural time period to heal.
A little off topic but I like the Direwolf's concept of speeding up natural healing times - would it merely add magntitudes to other natural healing spells (aka bonus's to recovery) or would they be a set of guidelines on their own i wonder? Could be a good original research goal for a lab rat - would also effect game play alot....your incap wound can naturally heal over the course of 1 week, with a little bit of wraping???
Kal
But then it disappears, along with anything that it is currently sustaining. That includes the altered state of the "healed" target.
As already stated, the creo operates under a distinct limitation; it can't create anything lasting without the use of vis to sustain it.
The perdo magic isn't sustaining the wound it caused. It does its work and then ends, leaving the results behind it.
I still don't like the word "permanent" in this context as it carries, for me, additional connotations. But that's probably me being too wordy, so permanent, lasting, whatever.
Hmm, i think you misread actually, the thing i posted is additive to regular but non-permanent healing spells that allows for SLOWER than normal up to normal rate natural healing as long as the spell is active. Meaning you add magnitudes to the spell in return for allowing the target to heal naturally to a smaller or greater degree while the spell is active (normally not possible).
My fault for not making it obvious, so lets try again:
Addition to Healing Spell that allows 1/8 rate natural healing while active at cost of +1 magnitude to spell
Addition to Healing Spell that allows 1/4 rate natural healing while active at cost of +2 magnitude to spell
Addition to Healing Spell that allows 1/2 rate natural healing while active at cost of +3 magnitude to spell
Addition to Healing Spell that allows normal natural healing while active at cost of +4 magnitude to spell
However the idea of speeding up healing is certainly one worth thinking of as well.
ah my bad - but still, thanks for an idea 
Kal
That's the way the faerie wizards do it. They have their own set of guidelines in the Realms of Power: Faerie book.