Would or could this wizards war happen?

Say a handful of magi declare Wizards War true and properly according to the Code. Then they set up a camp just out side of the covenant of the magus they have declared upon. At this camp they perform a very powerful Aegis which nearly budges up to the Aegis of the target's covenant. The camped magi do not interfere in anyway with the operations of the target's covenant, they bring their own food ect ect.

So they wait for the month to pass and then wage war.

Would this be stopped? Would it be practical?

On a side note... how far over head does the aura of a cathedral, city, or covenant go? Say it's a Dominion of 3... would it go higher than a DOminion of 2? Say you are flying a mile over head... would you suddenly have to subtract for Dominion if you flew over?

the dominion goes as far as the bell sound in heard

Church Auras (Insert page 39 , The Church):
Divine auras radiate from the church altar for as far as the church bells can be heard ,
or to the edge of the parish boundary , whichever is closer.
A small parish might be entirely covered by a Divine aura.
The strength of the aura depends upon the distance from the altar and the size of the church.

Large church/cathedral 05 (aura level)
Typical parish church 04
Chapel 03
Within city walls 03
Within town walls 02
Fields of a rural parish 01

I can't see why this could be prevented. Not under the code, but maybe your peripheral code has more rules on how WW must we waged. For one I would say this is not a very good tactic, since you expose yourself too much. Better to settle nearby, but in a more defensible location, since you might be striken back, after all :slight_smile:


Stopped? I'd certainly hope so. Not by the Code or the Order as a whole, but the covenant under threat is probably not stupid and can see what is going on.

The magi doing this are rather letting their opponents know where they are. Nothing stops the defensive wizards from interfering with your war camp in ways that don't impact your magical power, and they may also decide to frame -you- for various Hermetic crimes while they're at it.

As long as no-one violates the Code while doing so you can expect some serious reprisals on your war camp long before the full moon rises...

If the attacking wizards are foolish enough to declare the war camp their sancta then it gets even nastier. Firstly, this may have ramifications under the peripheral code (in Normandy, for example). Secondly, a wizard can only have one sanctum at a time. By declaring the war camp as your sanctum you're also declaring your old sanctum as -not- your sanctum. If the other wizards then swing by your covenant, dispel your aegis, raid your labs and (God forbid) get pinged by your magical defenses then -they- can have -you- hauled up before a Quaesitor so fast you may not even get to your wizard's war.

Short version: there is nothing stopping you from doing this in the Code, but by the same token it probably isn't tactically a good idea either.

I completely agree.

To me, a Wizard's War is supposed to be a 1-on-1 affair between wizards. You can't have "bunch of magi" declaring a WW on another one, because then it's not a valid WW. In that sense, WW are supposed to be "fair". So the basic scenario would not work IMS.

Regardless of that...

Casting an Aegis very close to another covenant's would be dicey. You expose yourself to charges that you are depriving this covenant's members from their magical power, since they can no longer cast magic on lands that "belong" to that covenant.

BTW, as soon as the camp is begun to be set up, the "attacked" covenant is sure to react. First by questions. Advice to go away, you're not welcome. Certamen to make you go away. Send in the grogs. Etc, etc.

And casting an Aegis ritual takes a long time, so it's easy to interfere with, making the spell fail. An armed camp is an aggressive move against the covenant, not just against the target of the WW. It's even worse if you are magically fortifying it with an Aegis.

Have the players ask themselves: If someone else was to try this close to their covenant, what would they do?

All of this IMHO.

Put me down for another one questioning the value of the tactical nature of this. For one, why wait the month, why not create the Aegis merely a day ahead of time? If you set it up a month ahead of time, your target may well decide to go to a friendly covenant who will lend him a casting tolken but not do the same for the attackers. Then they have wasted whatever vis they used to make the Aegis of the Hearth near the covenant.

They probably declared wizard's war independently and "just happened" to meet, talk and organize this.
There is nothing forbidding a magus from declaring a WW on someone at the same time as a third party does.
I think it's even mentioned in HoH:S (Flambeau), but noble's parma on that.

Under the Code there's nothing stopping a single magus declaring wizard's war on a multitude of other magi at the same time. There's also nothing stopping you declaring wizard's war on another magus who just received a declaration from someone else.

As such, ganging up is perfectly valid. Wizard's war isn't about fairness or honor any more than any other war is.

Thanks for the replies.

Yes tactically it is madness and foolish... but it was done by magi frothing in rage and seeking barely-controlled vengeance. The display was to be certain that the target knew what was coming for him. Ect ect.

As for it being proper it seems to be overwhelmingly a "Yes but hope you don't get manipulated before hand." This is a good thing. I am trying to simply avoid characters acting in a improper fashion regarding the Code. While I devour the books and try to absorb everything I can through gasto-osmosis, I certainly read everything I could and could not see a violation too outstanding.

I appreciate the help, and historical frothy mouthed magi thankyou as well

personally with my Tytalan cap on, if I couldn't fight them, I'd SUBTLY (via proxy and agent) have some nearby mortals come and cause issues for them and then when they did anything to the mortals have them all brought under on charges under the code part about interfering with mundanes.


They are, but there is no limit to the number of people who can declare them against you at the same time, and no limit to the number you can declare at the same time. In HoH:TL they mention a Bonisagus who was taking others apprentices and experimenting on them with fatal consequences for the apprentice, this was deemed to be his right but when he did it again he had 12 people declare wizards war against him. So there are explicit cannon references for this kind of thing.

Now it might be questionable as if you are not at war with the whole covenant you would be depriving them of their magic, and tactically a nice simple dispelling of the aegis seems less problematic to carry off. It isn't all that hard to do and quick compared to a ritual.

I am not sure what breaking a covenants aegis to kill one member would be viewed in the code. Probably not as an attack of depriving of magic in a high level but likely to result in a fine and additional penalties if you let in other things as a result of the broken aegis.

Since you need ritual magic to dispell ritual magic, I fail to see why it's faster from what you are writing...

A good way for the "attacked" covenant to be claming deprivation of magic is to temporary invite a friend magus not in the wizard's war. Then the friend go study in the conflicting zone of aegis, and he calls quaesitors.

At most, your opponent will only lose time - quaesitor investigation takes time, and quaesitores don't care if you have a wizard's war running now. In best case, they are marched, problem solved. Or expulsed of the tribunal.

Anyway they can come closer: it will be easier to attack them just after the moon. Since they can't destroy your aegis before, and you have the month to prepare a strategy. Like preparing a strike in their old sancta at the beginning of the wizard's war.

You can also be sadists. THey came? you ask a friend magus to remain here so that they won't do anything not appropriate - let the friend magus take anything of value in his sanctum - quickly transform the covenant in a giant wooden room with invisible walls.
Then go to another covenants. Each of the magus in one (for example Durenmar, Coeris if you are Tremere) to pay your respect... just a good choice of season.

Then strike their covenants/sancta when they are tired of waiting... so you can get them.

I actually think that with some modifications this is not an entirely terrible strategy.

Setting up an open camp with Aegis in full view is, of course, a terrible idea in so many ways.
However, there's nothing wrong with setting up a hidden proxy-base nearby, say hidden in the woods, as a safe staging area for any campaign. You can use Shrouded Vale magic for added effect.

You gain the advantage of surprise.
You gain the advantage of a safe staging area for frequent raids by grogs and magi alike.
You gain the advantage of your enemies not being able to use intellego to find you, and can't just find you in your covenant.
You still get a safe fallback area that is nearby if things go wrong. Far easier than retreating all the way to a covenant on a long-distance fight (say a war btwn. 3 of Stonehenge and 2 of Thebes tribunal, as an extreme example.)

Spot-casting of the Aegis is one of the reasons why Mystic Coreography is such a powerful and underrated virtue. The ability to set up a small level 20 Aegis locally in 8 minutes is very, very handy.

I thought that they only need for a ritual was to disenchant, kind of like you can counter specific effects of an enchanted item with formulaic counter magic but it can activate again.

Some non ritual spells should effect it.

Do you have a reference for that please?
I had 2 players debate it for hours recently and couldn't find it anywhere.

uh no, only my vision of the thing.

The fact is that to dispell item magic, you need ritual magic to dispell because that used vis.
Ritual used vis, so same principe.

So if you use vis to aid in the casting of formulaic magic do you need a ritual to dispell it?

The ritual to destroy magic items to me is more about destroying the item not dispelling the effect, winds of mundane silence will do that, but the item can be activated again. Dispelling effects never needs a ritual, you need one to destroy an item with out actually destroying it. Breaking the item is of course a good way to destroy it as well so Pe Te instead of Pe Vi.

If you look at the Perdo Auram spells Quiet the Raging Wind and the Cloudless Sky Returned, both mention that they are not powerful enough to affect weather created by Ritual Magic, but this is the only reference I remember, and it is very specific.