She appears to be out cold. Jacques looks unconcerned.
"So, it appears that there is an offer waiting to be spoken of..." His manner suggests that he has some sense of what is to be offered, but that he's waiting for it to be formally offered.
As soon as Viviana passes out, Fiona springs to her feet and rushes to her side to check on her condition. Int 1 + Medicine 3 + die roll of 8.
Fiona looks sharply at Jormungand's outburst. [color=blue]"Do you assume that your interests and those of the Giants are at odds? And why must you oppose them without knowing what they're doing or why? Are we really all that different from you?"
She appears to be resting comfortably and nothing seems wrong with her. You could try a bloodletting, but you don't think her humors are imbalanced.
"Fiona, there's nothing you can do for her. This was a particularly powerful vision. She will likely be out for a few hours. She warned me that this might happen, and empowered me to act on Atsingani's behalf, much as she did at our first meeting."
"Well, of course!" Jormungand quips. "They are fated to destroy our world, Midgard. Well, not the ones already here - even the wise Mimir and far-seeing Vafþrúðnir assisted Odin in his quest opposing the jotunn last time. 'Tis the Fire Giants of Jotunheim and the misshapen followers of Loki that Ah worry about and oppose, Fiona, and their quest to overthrow the Aesir, not the peaceful ones of the land. Ah doubt your kin have attempted to steal mah Goddess recently to marry her off against her will, even if a night with her be well worth Thor's and Odin's anger. Nor do Ah so instinctively oppose the reasonable and beautiful ones like yourself, sodalis." He sort of mutters under his breath, "Even if the Aesir have already been overthrown by another Pantheon, Ah'm sure they'll work out their place by God's side soon and come back, as the Vanir before them."
"Oh, oh yes. Sorry, we were distracted." Jormungand settles back down in his seat after Fiona makes sure Maga Viviana is taken care and not collapsed on the floor. "We were discussing our acceptance, distaste, opinions, and histories with or without the practice of vassalage. Ah believe we were at the point of debating the advantages and disadvantages of Vassal Covenants, in comparison to the rights, responsibilities, and duties of Membership, or Probationary Members. As acting Princeps and Chair of this Meeting, Maga Fiona has invited you as Protected Guests to this table to voice what you believe to be your merits as vassals, and to review your opinions if the offer of Membership to Mons Electi was proffered as an alternative. We differ on opinion there too, and hope your testimony will sway us towards a greater understanding and majority position."
Jacques appears confused, "I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Atsingani is your vassal, and I don't understand your usage of the term of Protected Guest."
Once she's satisfied that Viviana's fine, Fiona will return to her chair and write down her "prophecy" word for word, as best as she can recall, muttering as she writes (reading aloud what she's writing, under her breath). Jacques seems to place great stock in her visions, so it might be a good idea to have it handy in the library for future reference. She has a bad feeling about the "giantess confronts her past" and the "library is turned to dust" ones in particular.
Fiona, who knows basically nothing about Norse religion aside from having heard the names Odin and Thor before, hears "destroy our world blah Odin quest blah her kin haven't kidnapped blah beautiful and reasonable ones like yourself", and she can't help but blush at the compliment.
[color=blue]"It's one of the three statuses defined in our Charter...more than a mere visitor but less than a Member. It affords you basic rights and protections, including full protection of your Hermetic rights within the covenant, a sanctum, access to the library, and proper victuals. As a Protected Guest, you're allowed to attend Council meetings, but no vote. Your status can be revoked either by myself or by a vote of the Council.
"And as to the other..there are those on the council who are unhappy with vassalage in general and with your being our vassals in particular, and are considering offering you membership instead."
"Membership? Protected Guests? Which is it? Does this include our turb, as well, that you take them in as covenfolk?"
[color=blue]"That is why we," Fiona indicates the rest of the magi of Mons Electi, [color=blue]"wish to discuss the matter with you. Whether to keep you as vassals, whether to invite you to be members, what to do with Atsingani in either situation...that is what is on the table. Sodales, if you please?"
FIona sits back in her chair and looks around the table, waiting for the questioning and the discussion to begin, and for someone to change her mind.
"I'll be frank, I have no objection to offering you and your sodales Probationary Member status, rather than Protected Guest. We would take in your turb, and integrate them with ours, and deal with that difficulty as we may. Realize, though, that I am one voice amongst many. All of my sodales here could take an apprentice and open their arts without giving them a deficiency, several have made a talisman, or bound a familiar. Indeed we have one apprentice amongst us. I would rather have you with us, where your actions and your turb's actions can be more tightly controlled. I say this, Jacques, because you are wet behind the ears."
OOC: I've offered jebrick the chance at running Jacques here. So Jacque's response may take some time. Whether it does or not, you can still discuss your leanings, or ask what's they (Atsingani) can offer, etc.
After he is done speaking, Apollodorus writes a note and then sends a page for Alexei.
[i]Alexei,
Please return to the council chamber, I'm sure one of us can retire to an antechamber or niche and perform a spell to sober you up. Your presence is requested and required, by me, personally, or I will ask the council discuss your censure, after the matter of Atsingani is settled. We have just brought them into the council chamber. I have made my position, desiring that they join us as Probationary members, and we integrate their turb into our own.
Apollodorus[/i]
Hmm, I may have underestimated the impact of this "Brione" incident, considering. Perhaps I really shoud spend some time of my own with the grogs. Well, our grogs."
Thinks Fieltarn, as he watches the somewhat tense exchange between Alexei and Jacques... a realization just reinforced when Alexei leave the Council, a moment later.
She is a fine speaker. I should also ask her for some pointers on etiquette, later on.
Nevertheless, Fieltarn may be advocating for Atsingani's member to join Mons Electi, but he intently watches for Jacques reaction as Fiona mentions Atsingani's relationship to Montvert...
=> if deemed pertinent : +1Per +3Awareness (same score in Guile) +roll of 7f = 11
"Who the hell would the General be?" murmurs Fieltarn behind Fiona's shoulder, as she write Viviana's enigmatic words. " And which wolf? Tremere or... ? Fascinating."
Fieltarn also finds himself listening with more interest than he expected as Jormungand explain some of his own religion's teaching. Revising his previous impression on the deceivingly youngish magus I wonder what he might say about werewolves... But at least he may be more than a lecherous corpus master after all.
Fieltarn nods vigorously, smiling gently.
I share the same views. Actually, I beleive I was just the one who suggested that you join us as full members, rather than vassals. I'd add my voice for you and your sodales from Atsingani to be Probationary Members, consequently.
While I'm not that... seasoned myself, as Apollodorus kindly suggest, at least regarding my prospective capacity to properly form an apprentice of mine, like you Jacques I've been on the road almost my whole life, and being familiar with the challenge of not having settled in one place, I think that it nevertheless gives ample opportunities to prove one's mettle. In a Tribunal such as ours, I'd say that Atsingani managed better than most would have probably thougth you would, hence my favorable inclination towards you joining us as full members.
Still, I can also understand the circumspection of my sodales, regarding your former liege, and the extent of your ties with Montverte, even as you're now considering leaving its shadow. The more you'd be willing to share about them, the more I believe this Council would feel at ease... and probably the best everyone - us and you - could then prepare for some probable retaliation from Montvert, you see.
Alexei sits dourly in his sanctum, another cup of wine on the table as he sharpens a spearhead from a collection that he keeps. The note slides under the door and is retrieved for him by Helmut who stands nervously as he has only seen him this mad on few occasions...and usually men died shortly afterwards. Alexei glares at the scrap of vellum and opens it, looking at it blearily for a moment.
"My lord?" Helmut asks with a quivering voice as he sees Alexei's hand begin to shake.
"Bloody Hell!" he suddenly roars and stabs the spearhead through the note onto his table and then hurls the wine cup across the room. "I left the damned meeting so I could avoid censure! That smug son of a bitch Jacques, I almost killed him right there!" He stands up, pacing for several moments running his hands through his hair or stroking his beard as he tried to reign in his burning humours. Finally he stops, picks up his staff and begins to gesture and speak loudly in a somewhat slurred voice.
((Casting a spontaneous spell to destroy the inebriating properties of the alcohol he's consumed, per the rules on 123, that's a base 15 spell with R: Personal D: Momentary T: Individual total spell level 15
Casting total Pe 11 + Aq 5 + Int 2 + 5 Aura + 2 Gestures and voice + 3 Special Circumstances = 28
Spending a Fatigue, I figure drunkeness could cause extra botching dice if I roll a 10.
1d10+28 → [2,28] = (30)
invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3289217/
Got it exactly.))
At the conclusion of the spell, he takes a staggering step from the sudden onset of fatigue and then stands straight again and sober. He straightens his robes and smooths his hair and beard before reaching for the spearheads on the table but stops with a shaking hand. "Blast!" he finally mutters and walks out the door leaving young Helmut to tidy up the room.
Minutes later he walks into the meeting room and heads to the chair he vacated earlier. "Is this seat taken?" he says with somewhat forced lightheartedness as he plucks the spearhead he left in the cushion and sits down.
Jacques's face changes several times going from shock to astonishment to anger to realization as many thoughts come into head head at once.
"Why do we need to be more tightly controlled? And what could you offer us as your vassals as opposed to Probationary Members ?"
((Jacques has clamed the color #00FF00...unless it is too bright. then I will find another shade of green))
Korvin looks to Fiona and Apollodorus.
" Am I to understand that we are accepting bandits into our turb or as our vassels?"
I think you can pick a darker shade. Mufarjj has a darker shade, and it is unlikely that the two characters will have any serious interaction, and if they do, I'll adjust his color.
"Everything is controlled, in one manner or another. Banditry will not be tolerated from a vassal or member. We offer you a more comfortable life, not one of desparation and subsistence."
"We wouldn't be the first covenant to do so. We can, perhaps, reform them."
[color=blue]"Of course not...please, help yourself," Fiona says with a friendly smile.
(um, yeah....that's kinda hard for me to read. Sorry)
[color=blue]"The Order exists on the precarious edge of society...too far out for the likes of some, too enmeshed for others. And for whatever reason, we tend to attract mortals who likewise live on the edge of humanity. Of course, I would prefer that any bandits, any raiders be under our control than in our henhouse."
Fiona says nothing at this, but merely glances at Apollodorus.
She nods.
"What of functioning as mercenaries? Would that be permissible?"
((color now #00BF00))
Jacques, I'd actually argue that vassals are more dependent, and risk being "controlled" than recognized members of our Covenant. Or that, vassal would risk being left to rely on their own by uncaring liege as it was my understanding that you were under MontVerte. We are offering more liberty, I'd daresay, not less, by proposing Atsingani to join us as prospective equal, in the coming years. In return, we only ask that you adhere to the same responsibilities as we had, so perhaps "control" isn't the best of term here, actually.
Fieltarn cast a quick glance at Apollodorus, while mentally crossing his fingers.
As to your second question, allow me to put it differently : isn't it clear that you'd get much less as our vassals? As Fiona said, we'd offer a home - sanctums even! - and a seat at this council, among other things. I fail to see how that might offend.
If Atsingani does join Mons Electi, their grogs would not be our "vassals" per se. And if Atsingani would rather be a vassal covenant, their turbula would stay theirs, first and foremost". And turning back his attention to Jacques : "Nor would they be anything less than equals to our current grogs, as I see it, by integrating the Turbula. You'd naturally keep more than have a say at the Council, regarding such unified turbula's training and living condition, naturally. This would reinforce both parties and offer everybody better prospect; as you seem quite close to your grogs, would you not wish such opportunities for them?"
[ooc: No longer do I scream out, "My eyes, my eyes!"]
Apollodorus says, "There is the matter of the Code. You have been operating on the less defensible side for years, with your brigandage, etc. I would perfer operating on the more defensible side. I'm sure we can find suitable activities and challenges for the turb."
"Just to let you know which side of the debate Ah come from, Ah favor vassalage myself, if only because that's the system Ah'm most familiar with. As what we bring to the table, if you choose to continue as vassals, if Ah reviewed what Fiona presented earlier, we have promised a modicum of protection from other Covenants and support in times of emergency. In return, we receive a taxation of vis and later Covenant service. Please correct me if Ah'm wrong there, skimming items is not mah strong point. As a benefit, you retain greater autonomy over your turb, covenfolk, and resources, with greater personal risk, of course. Mah family's former covenant was systematically picked clean through multiple political maneuvers that we did not know how to fight against, mah mater taught me. If you joined, or better say collapsed, Atsingani and pooled your resources into Mons Electi, you'd have the strength of twelve magi against any machinations of others in the order. Under vassalage, you'd probably get better deals from our resources than we would offer a competing covenant, instead of sharing in them, but let's be honest, in a coordinated attack upon the both of us, more of our time and resources will be going to what we would personally lose."
"By joining, yah risk tighter control from us, your fellow sodales. You have a greater and equal say amongst us, and access to our greater resources and materials, but your voice would be an equal one of... twelve? thirteen? Instead of an equal voice of four. And Ah believe we're also planning an order of seniority within the covenant itself, but that'll be in the Charter if you choose to join, or if we choose to make the offer. For example, as you might notice, "Jormungand does a very gentle head nod towards Alexei who just rejoined, "Alexei is the main one amongst us who is martially inclined, and has since taken charge of our Covenant's defense. This includes the turbs. If you join, Jacques, all of you would have a say in the disposition and use of the turb, perhaps, say, as mercenaries. However, it would be Alexei who has been authorized with their discipline and orders. Mah old covenhome was all family - they may not take kindly to a different hand on the reins, but Ah would hope they could accept the loss of a little freedom for comfort. If freedom be the greater concern, vassalage would be the better choice." Jormungand takes a moment to whet his whistle and takes a prolonged sip of wine. With a relaxed sigh he continues,
"If your name be part of your identity, if freedom being independence is greater than comfort, safety, and conformity, this should be a much harder choice. Working within the bounds of others is more comfortable, but requires much more catering and compromise, just like any marriage or invitation to bed. Your palm is always easier to satisfy than another woman or man."