We do have a pass, we need a good writer to go there.

Fiona actually now has Winter 1222 and Spring 1223 free, since Sheelagh is being taught. So, she would like to study the comically oversized tractatus those seasons.

The letter Alexei got offered "you or another member of Mons Electi to come to Durenmar for a period of time to not exceed two seasons, which must be taken consecutively, to copy books from our library. " I think we decided that meant that it had to be a magus. Fiona can copy eight levels a season, so she would only be able to do a Level 16 summa on...whatever. I think what bogged us down before was that we couldn't decide what Art to go for. If a copying score of 8 is the best we can do, Fiona will go.

If anyone needs a LR done, Korvin will do it for no charge IF they allow him to experiment with the LR

Is anyone available to teach Korvin Leap of Home comming? It looks like it would take him two seasons to create it.

~snicker~ Only if you experiment radically (which Viscaria will assume is an attempt to overcome the difficulty of her LR).

Actually, that's a point. What about Lab Texts instead of a summa? Seems unwise at first glance, but it'd save us a bundle.

Viscaria would, obviously, like a Finesse book, but the library page has some fairly obvious gaps in it, especially now that we've got apprentices. If it weren't for the apprentices, I would suggest arcane lore-skill books instead.

That's just crazy enough to work. 60 x scribe spell levels a season should net us quite a few spells, if they'll let us.

Update my proposed seasons, adding in the Princeps duties, and then shuffling all the enchanting work to the front of the line. I also did running totals of her XP earnings.

If JL gives the green-light, that would make for 19 seasons worth of correspondence on Finesse so far, and 24 seasons of Correspondence between Theraphosa and whatever familiar/pen-pal we can establish for her (currently set to Code of Hermes). So, I should absolutely find some resonant materials and get them bound.

First, though, I need to generate some NPCs:

  • A flambeau magus, one of Alexei's political allies, who is highly skilled in Finesse and has a reason to stay in contact with a Verditus.
  • A familiar/penpal for Theraphosa, who is also deeply obsessed with the Code of Hermes, and has the ability to write letters. I originally thought this would be a Quaesitor, but then that plotline happened, and I never figured out a replacement concept.

Also, I need to pick what Theraphosa does with her not-in-the-lab time. When I first created her, I gave her the following Flaws: Essential: Meddler, Inherited: Nocturnal, -3 Difficult Underlings, -1 Magical Friend, -3 Favors, none of which came up in play. I imagine her being all intrigue-focused, but haven't really explored that either.

Initially, I imagined her Difficult Underlings to be her own spawn, and the Magical Friend /Favors to get sorted out in a story about her arrival. This didn't happen because of all the other things that happened in 1222. Any ideas, folks?

Without experimenting I can get in the 80s pretty easily with an LR. Now I have an apprentice to add to that I should get close to if not over 100.

Korvin is trying to get a breakthough with LR that would add 5 years to the time of taking the checks. Rather than every 10 years it would be every 15. So he needs some "subjects" to experiment with :slight_smile:

Renaud is going to try and get a Illuminator from Paris to come and do some books. We have a very nice selection of books that would be good for trading.

If someone has a lab text on Leap of Homecoming that would help as well. Just trying to not waste 2 seasons doing the spell.

Re:Leap, I was suggesting that given all our vis, especially with the portal, we should just trade for a Lab Text of it, or pick it up at Durenmar.

Fiona knows that her old covenant has Leap of the Homecoming and Seven League Stride, and the Animal versions of both, if we want to trade something comparable.

Let me known when Viscaria would like to start working on it. It may take more than one season.

The season after the Tribunal season? She'll risk an aging roll, I think, but only one, and that makes sense for her hedonistic nature -- far too busy working on her project to notice her health concerns.

How much does she add again?

MT 5 Int of at least 3 and inventive genius after 1223.2

Fiona can be hella-awesome sometimes.

Working on her enhanced Curse of Circe, a level 40 spell, in Fall of 1223. She currently has a Lab Total of 53. With Abigail's help, that's an additional MT 5 + Int 3 + Inventive Genius 3 = 11, for a new LT of 64. I still have no idea how much Sheelagh and Paul would add, so I'm not including them, yet. If we Experiment, that's an addition 6 (3 for Fiona's Inventive Genius and 3 for Abigail's). That gets us up to 70. If I spend Summer '23 teaching just Sheelagh Magic theory, that's 16 xp, so at least a Level 2, plus her Int (which should, hopefully, be at least a +1), for another +3, which gets us to a 73 before any dice rolls. If need be (i.e. Paul doesn't know any MT and has ordinary intelligence, or just can't be bothered), I could drop 3 points of Exceptional Risk to get it to a 76, before any dice.

And that is how you can invent a Level 40 spell in one season.

So...um...yeah. Fiona starts cackling like a madwoman, and asks if she can borrow Abigail for Fall of '23.

Damn, girl. And I thought I was impressive with the ReTe enchant total of 84. It's way impressive to get your spell totals up that high!

I won't know if I need her until we get the Lab Texts approved, but I'll happily take her for any of my enchanting seasons.

Trading vis for books or lab texts might be a good idea. Just to say...

Nope, it doesn't.
But, conversely, inherited virtues are "free", and can manifest after the master has taught them.

I had seen your point, but what disturbs me is that "opening" bit. I don't see why an apprentice's gift couldn't be already imperfect, or later crippled by the master. Yet if one wants those, he needs multiple hermetic flaws.

In short: mandatory hermetic flaw at some point - yes! mandatory hermetic flaw at the opening - no! Let the characters with only one hermetic flaw have acquired it differently instead of all at opening! :wink:

Well, you transmit your flaws because they're part of your understanding of magic. That is, if you can't affect holy things because you were taught things that way and don't even know how to, you can't teach it.
So you know how to teach Flawless Magic to your apprentice. But this reshaping of his gift will also cripple his ability to spontaneously cast spells. You just don't know how to do one without the other.

BUT!!! Rest assured! Inherited flaws are there against the clone magi! And you can have they exist because of any reason you'd like. That is, if you have an inherited deficiency in Terram, it may be because your gift is weak, because your parens taught you badly, because an experiment he did crippled your gift, because you were cursed by some entity...

=> Teaching only virtues and flaws you know get a sense of tradition, of magical lineages, of filiation. And inherited virtues and flaw mean that every individual is unique, both in its nature and in the strokes of fate he may suffer :smiley:

We are mostly in agreement. I feel the the teaching of virtues should come with a flaw to balance it ( like a mystery cult script) but the flaw does not have to be from the Magus teaching. It can be but gives some latitude in choice.

I also find it funny that some virtues are teachable. Intuitive Genius for example. Either you are intuitive or not. Just because your teacher is does not mean that your are. Most of us find that Gentle Gift should not be taught. There are several others that are much more likely to be inherited or natural rather than taught.

That is good. We can work out compensation afterwards.

Look at her schedule so far and pick out an open area. We will work out some compensation after the Tribunal ( since you will be very busy).

I'm inflicting a flaw at Arts opening, and giving a bonus to later teaching of virtues, treating it as an ordeal, because I want masters to be able to transmit virtues to their apprentices without having to impart their own flaws. I think you misunderstand me. So I'm going to try and explain it a different way. The hermetic flaw at opening is an inherited flaw, selected by the player. And it gives a bonus to subsequent teaching of virtues by the master. So, this is the only way a master, in most cases, can pass on their prized virtue without having to pass on a hated flaw. If an inherited flaw were to make itself manifest later, then there is no bonus to source quality AND it becomes much more likely that apprentices resemble their masters. I don't think any of us want that. So, to get around that, I allow the apprentice to choose their own Hermetic flaw, make it manifest at opening and then give the master the benefit of the Ordeal in subsequent teaching.

Getting to SQ 21 is pretty darn difficult. Ra'am is: Com 3+Teacher 4 + 3 +6 (single student) +Good Teacher 5=21! A character with a teaching score of 4 has spent 50 xp to get it there. Com 3 and Good Teacher also indicate a singularly motivated individual to be a good teacher, which comes at the expense of something else. How many magi have com 3 and good teacher 3 and a teaching score of 4? By reading what is required to pass on virtues, I don't see how the Order isn't almost a bunch of clones where lineages have the same Hermetic virtues and apprentices look more like their masters.

So, again your argument boils down to one of timing. You want a hermetic virtue to occur later. IF it does occur later then it is either a flaw the master has and passes down to their apprentice, or it is a flaw the apprentice has deep within, it's inherited. Taking the consequence of those choices into account, the inherited flaw does not have any benefit to teaching of other virtues and flaws. In order for a master to teach their greatest part of their gift (Virtue), they now have to impart the thing they hate the most (Flaw). I hate that. I don't want that. Do you understand why I'm insisting a flaw be there at opening? IT's a flaw completely unrelated to the master, but it gives him the benefit of the Ordeal later on. Also, maybe it's a really bad flaw and the Master works for 15 years to correct it?

I think I've laid out my reasoning pretty well. It has story implications and it makes sense in an environment where players have expressed an interest in not seeing their apprentices be a copycat of themselves. And it addresses the problem of the master being heavily focused on teaching (high com, Good Teacher, Teaching score of 4 or more).

Well, Viscaria has already got a long list of lab texts and a short list of books that she was shopping for in 1222. As I understand it, our options for acquiring lab texts are:

  • People could add to that list that Viscaria was already shopping for
  • they could acquire resources on their own, or
  • they could make it council business and get the princeps to do it (ie, best skill amongst us)

Viscaria has Com +2 Bargain +4 ("for souls" specialty applies to human/animal services/acquisition) = +6 for books
Fiona has Com +2 Bargain +3 ("service for service") = +5

I think we're the top contenders.

I honestly can't think of what else we might trade for books. We have a scribe and permancarius, but not a binder or illuminator (unless they're part of the 15bps of unspecified specialists), so we can't trade copies of books.