1224 OOC

Yeah...that's one detail he'd not want to miss.

"Wait...do what now?"

You got a purty mouth...

snort Ok, I'm not a sick bastage, Really, I'm not. Praxiteles, Alips and Talia seem to bring out the worst in me. I need to go spend some time with Ra'am... I've got to get busy on Ulrich's training, anyway...

For some reason, when I saw this, I had an image of someone reaching over and patting him on the shoulder, saying "That's nice, dear." in a patronizing voice :laughing:

So...Thinking about moving the Whoa Buoy, so Talia can do stuff in her lab during the spring while ferrying Aodhan and his pater to Verdii... And can we handwave that we'd be back in time for Tribunal?
I need to lift

Move! That! Ship! ReHe 30
Base 5, Control a plant (product) moving it as you direct.
R:Touch, D:Conc, T:Str

Dang, that's well beyond Talia's capability for casting spontaneously. Her CS is Re 4 + He 10 + Sta 2=16/2 or 8. She could burn 10 pawns of Herbam to add a another 10, after division. She can go ceremonial, and add another 1...so she gets to 19. Confidence makes it +3 to 22. Leaving her 8 short, so she needs to roll a 16...

Hermetic Projects has an enchantment...
Shape of the Costal Buss, but dang, it's Re(Mu)He(Te), same Base of 5... So nothing.

I need to come up with a better plan...

Edit I think I did, remembered her Focus!
And in a totally ironic thing, I am changing her winter 1223 Study to the new Rego book.
Would push her Rego scoro up to 6. So the CS becomes Re 6 + Focus 6 + He 10 + Sta 2 + Artes Lib 2 =26/2 or 13. So now burning 10 pawns of Vis brings the total to 23. This is now possible. Botching might be bad.

Some general questions need to be asked and answered about the River Ness. We're presuming that it is a shallow river leading from the Loch to the sea, as it does now. However, the current, modern depth of the River is just about 1.5 meters or 4.5 feet. The depth in the current period may be greater, because during the Construction of the Caledonian Canal in the 1800s had a weir placed in the River which made the level of the entire Loch go up 8 feet! That suggests a fair amount of flow in the River, and also would be reasonable that the river depth is higher... How much higher? Without going through estimates of cubic feet/minute flow rates.

A cog, as best I can tell has about 10 feet below the waterline when laden. Maybe 6 feet when unladen. Does that seem reasonable?

So what I'm looking at is a spell to lift the ship just a little bit to avoid running aground, but I don't think I have to lift it very high.

I also think I can look at this from the ReTe perspective and include a casting requisite of Herbam. If we base it of Ominous Levitation of the Weight Stone... That spell has a Base 3 +1 for stone, for moving a stone in a very unnatural fashion. I think moving something straight up is a slightly unnatural fashion. So call it Base 2+1. We'll handle locomotion with the sail.

Move That Ship! ReTe(He) 25
Base 3, Move dirt in a slightly unnatural fashion (+1 for stone), R:T, D:Sun, T:Str
The idea is that Talia will lift the ship high enough to not run aground. She needs to get from Loch Ness to Inverness Harbor, which is the widest part of the River, and also the deepest. The entire length of the river is 12km or 19.2 miles.

Talia's CS, if we read the Rego book is Re 6+ Focus 6 +Te(He) 10 + Sta 2 +Artes Liberales 2=26/2 or 13.

Are these some reasonable assumptions? Talia would lift the ship straight up about 3 feet with this spell, and then the crew would sail it into the river and drop anchor, once we got into deeper water until we could bring the ship back down (maybe with another casting of this spell that pushes the boat down to it's normal level, and then wait for both to expire at sundown)?

A quick cursory Google search seems to indicate that they raised the level of the Loch about 8-10 feet, and that the river is between 30 and 100 cm deep (which is 12-40 inches). So, let's say that the River Ness is about 13 feet deep, just to keep things simple.

Oh, and you divided instead of multiplying on the length of the Ness, I think. It's actually about 7 miles, instead of 19.

Lifting the ship would, I think, be ReHe, base 3, R: Touch (+1), D: Concentration(+1), T: Individual, with (I think) +1 magnitude for size, for the volume of the wood. So, target level of 10 sound about right? (And the reason I'm not inclined to do a Te requisite is that the amount of iron is insignificant. I wouldn't charge a Te requisite for Lift the Dangling Puppet if the guy had on armor, which is analogous, I think.)

I think T:Ind, and Size +1 is problematic. A unit of of Herbam is a plant of 1 pace cubed. Increasing size +1 only gets to 10 cubic paces, which is far too little (not much bigger than a standard size refrigerator). I think T:Str, if we can agree just fits better, and is a +3.

The reason I went with ReTe(He) is because of the guidelines for moving things. ReHe for moving a plant in any direction is Base 5... While for Terram it's actually Base 3, or Base 4 for stone. And spells like Unseen Arm and Unseen Porter say it works on anything, as long as casting requisites are taken into account. In Talia's case, it's immaterial as her scores for He and Te are both 10. Where it's confusing is that both the spells mentioned use Base 2 and Base 3 suggesting dirt is being moved...

You're right, I went the wrong way on calculating the length of the river, so it's an hour... I might consider a Concentration version of this spell...

I really think it has to be a higher level spell than 10th level, if we accept that the Base for Unseen Arm and The Unseen Porter are correct, we could lower the Base for what I originally proposed and move the level down to 20. 13 + 1/2 the die roll + some vis + some confidence is well within the realm of getting to 20... Much easier than getting to 25.

So... This is like a total backwards negotiation, the player starts off with the more difficult method, the SG offers an easier ruling, and the player comes down a bit, but still leaves it higher than what the SG suggested. :smiley:

I think T:Ind, and Size +1 is problematic. A unit of of Herbam is a plant of 1 pace cubed. Increasing size +1 only gets to 10 cubic paces, which is far too little (not much bigger than a standard size refrigerator). I think T:Str, if we can agree just fits better, and is a +3.

The reason I went with ReTe(He) is because of the guidelines for moving things. ReHe for moving a plant in any direction is Base 5... While for Terram it's actually Base 3, or Base 4 for stone. And spells like Unseen Arm and Unseen Porter say it works on anything, as long as casting requisites are taken into account. In Talia's case, it's immaterial as her scores for He and Te are both 10. Where it's confusing is that both the spells mentioned use Base 2 and Base 3 suggesting dirt is being moved...

You're right, I went the wrong way on calculating the length of the river, so it's an hour... I might consider a Concentration version of this spell...

I really think it has to be a higher level spell than 10th level, if we accept that the Base for Unseen Arm and The Unseen Porter are correct, we could lower the Base for what I originally proposed and move the level down to 20. 13 + 1/2 the die roll + some vis + some confidence is well within the realm of getting to 20... Much easier than getting to 25.

So... This is like a total backwards negotiation, the player starts off with the more difficult method, the SG offers an easier ruling, and the player comes down a bit, but still leaves it higher than what the SG suggested. :smiley:

Base 3 for ReHe is for an amount of wood. Base 5 is for a plant. Like, say, a tree or a shrubbery or something.

A pace is 27 cubic feet (a pace is 3 feet, 3 cubed is 27). Size +1 is 270 cubic feet. And that's not the size of the ship, that's the amount of wood comprising the ship.

Do you want to make it Size +2, for up to 2,700 cubic feet of wood? Which would raise the Target Level to 15? (since Rego Herbam doesn't have a "move plant in natural/unnatural fashion" like Terram does)

And yeah, this does seem bass ackwards. :smiley:

Base 3, Control an amount of wood, ok... Is this then an unnatural fashion?

Base 3, R:Touch, D:Sun, T:Ind, Size +2 is 20th level. I think I'm better than it only be 10th or 15th level.

So, doing some reverse engineering here, is it reasonable to have invented this spell in Winter of 1224, and used Ysebrand in the process? Talia having spent nearly two years in the Loch without going anywhere, wanderlust getting to her? I'd rather invent the spell, but if that isn't reasonable, I can do something else...

Winter of 1224, or winter of 1223? My planner shows "Winter in Iberia? I hear it's lovely there." for her plans for Winter of '23.

I didn't really have anything planned for her in Winter of 1223. Trying to come up with something to do for that season. I left that there as a bit of a joke.
Last I asked in Gates of Janus I had asked if the Magic Theory book is available, and was planning to study that. I could, if the Common Lab is available and Ysebrand is available invent the ReHe spell described above in the winter of 1223. I'm not sure if that's too much gamesmenship or not. Ysebrand didn't do a whole lot in 1223 to earn his vis...but I'm not sure I'm a fair arbiter of what's reasonable behavior... :smiley:

Surprisingly (considering how much of a fuss was made about it way back when), it hasn't seen much use. So, it's available for Winter of 1223. (I thought I had a doc that had laboratory reservations, but I don't. So I added a Lab Usage section on the lab's wiki page.)

Indeed, it seems Talia has been the only one to take advantage of it.
And Ysebrand? I don't feel I can fairly make that call.

Funny thing is, I just summarized that thread for the wiki two days ago, and I still had to go back and see what was decided.

So, he needs (I think) a pawn a season to survive, basically. But he hasn't served as a lab assistant or anything since he helped Eilid enchant Buttercup's armor back in Summer of 1222. So, he hasn't eaten in a year and a half unless he asked someone? And I don't think he's worked out a deal with Aodhan where the Verditius pays him anything for his work in England and Europe, unless I missed it. And I think his asking price was two pawns per season of work, basically.

Aodhan will pay, but he'd need to see some work. Even if it's unsuccesful, knowing he's out there trying to make deals would be enough; he knows that magic items are expensive and only a few could buy them.

So, Aodhan makes the simple magic item and mundane duplicate in Winter, travels to Verdi in Spring to finish the Mystery and gets his first taste of Hubris. He starts heading back...likely returns in early to mid-summer?

While in Verdi, he's going to try and obtain books on Philosophaie if he can. What might be the exchange on something like that?

Right, which is why I wanted him to have a story that was basically him trying to sell Aodhan's stuff, but 1223 was lost in a vacuum. I've tried to move that story along, sell Aodhan's wares that I have of his, or find a commission. Spent the summer of 1223 doing it, should have been able to secure some vis from that. Is that reasonable?
And then he works for Talia in the Winter and secures two more pawns. And we're up to 1224.

Okay, work something out in the appropriate thread.

Actually, Tintavius arrived in February, so Winter is out as far as making enchanted items. Aodhan can work on the mundane version, then mundane and Quality version. Rereading the mystery initiation rules, however, it doesn't look like it exactly lines up, since you can leave "as the end of the season draws near".

Say, spend the last month of Winter (after Tintavius arrives) and the first month of Spring working on those, then leaving in mid-April. Orbis shows that it would take a little over a month (32.7 days) to get to Verdi. This includes cutting overland north of the Pyrenees, for 8 days. It would probably take longer if he went around Iberia and through the Straits of Hercules, I'd have to sit down and figure out how much longer.

So, figure a month there, a month back, so he'd probably get back in late June or July, likely in time for the Loch Leglean Tribunal.

Verdi probably has some pretty good Philosophae books, being the Domus Magnus (at least for now?). So, probably upwards of 5 pawns for an average book there? (I'm leaning toward doing a 1 pawn per 5 build points of book)

OK...would he get the season he'd need to enchant the item first, or would he have to borrow a lab in Verdi? He's easily got it doubled as a lesser enchanted item, which would cost 1 vim.

He'll bring 5 Ignem and 5 Mentem to trade for either a good Philosphaie book or 2 average ones like you listed.

3 seasons of travel and 1 of labwork, and he'd just barely make it back to the tribunal let's say.

2 exposure, Magic Theory
and 4 exposure Latin?

He'd also get a Hubris of 1 and Items of Quality Mystery, and still not have his lab kitted out completely. Sorry, have to go back through what Aodhan was doing, mainly wanted to incorporate the feature of his Anvil into the lab for bonuses.