1260:OOC

Odds are there would be numerous claims of mundane people and things being a part of a magus's magical power, some succesfully argued in Tribunal others not succesfully argued. In the case of Juno, be ready to have your argument to declare them part of her power, it's not IMO an unreasonable request, but that doesn't mean it would fly.

It might be best to go through the lists IC and OOC. One thing I'm not sure of though, would each Magus know the terms and conditions of the other magi's service? Because we are all in service to the Tremere or Transyvania, none of us except Laterala are Cives, and even if we were, we'd still have high expectations of us.

Alright than thinking of some IC logic...

And remember all those things are just initial offers from Eve, I expect lots of changes.

1) The right to perform mystery rites shall have the same protections as laboratory work or study.
1a) Juno shall be considered part of Eve's magical power.

No problem here, I'd say it doesn't need to be stated, but then again, why take the chance?

2) House Tremere shall have first opportunity to purchase any books, vis or magical items that Eve wishes to sell or gift. Eve may not accept outside commissions.
2a) Magical items shall have standard House Verditius prices.

This would likely be dictated to Eve and the rest of us, i think it's a rule of the Tribunal already, but I could be wrong.

2b) The price of a tractus, not under and restrictions shall be twice the number of pawns Eve could extract in a season. Tracti or silver may be required instead of vis. In this case a sound tractus is considered to be worth 2 pawns or more, and 15 pounds of silver is considered 1 pawn when accounting.

This is an extrapolated price from Verditian service correct? It's a decent price, but is it possible you're not getting the value? Not sure, Eve does write the best book and could write, what, 3 different books at her highest Quality on the same topic she knows before having to make a significant improvement on that topic and then write 3 more? Again, this could be a price dictated to you rather than you requesting/demanding it.

2c) The price of any books also includes up to two copies provided to Eve. These copies at the buyers option may be placed under the Oath of Calf and Cow for 49 years. Furthermore, any works that Eve writes that are sufficiently similar a magi would find no additional insights by studying the second work are also under the Oath of Calf and Cow for the same time frame. Eve may not sell these tracti or rent them. She may lend them or gift them.

I'm not sure what this means.

3) Eve shall have access to space for a regular laboratory and sufficient funds to maintain the laboratory at normal expense, and pay her servant Juno. Eve will have access to resources to replace equipment in her lab in cases of catastrophe.

No problem here.

4) Eve shall have access to sufficient writing materials for herself, her familiar and one assistant to write and copy and correspond. They shall have access to a bookbinder, and illuminatior and scribe to complete any writings produced.

No problem here, logisitics of it could be an issue, I don't know. Regardless of any issues we had in Eve's design, she is a top notch writer and the Tremere would want to take advantage of that.

5) A measure of Vis in equal parts with other magi at the Oppida of Heviz
6) Full access to books and study materials as allowed to full members of the Opidda of Heviz
7) The right to participate in Aegis castings, and the right of her familiar to participate in Aegis castings that cover her sanctum.

Should be a given, but best not to assume.

8 Any books that Eve writes as part of her duties, shall have two copies made. These copies at House Tremere's Option may remain under Calf and Cow for up to 49 years. In addition during this same time frame any works that Eve writes that are sufficiently similar a magi would find no additional insights by studying the second work are also under the Oath of Calf and Cow for the same time frame. Eve may not sell these tracti or rent them. She may lend them or gift them.

I get the gist of this, just don't know the Calf and Cow rules.

9) Eve maintains all ownership of her existing Vis Sources. Eve owns any vis she personally produces.

Presumably her personal vis source virtue, plus any vis she pulls from the ether. Smart to put it in, I'd go further and say that it does not count against her either when vis is distributed, in other words she wouldn't get less vis just because she has her own sources already. That doesn't mean you'd be able to argue it sucessfully, but I'd go for it.

10) Required Original Research Projects shall not require work on effects of more than two magnitudes.

I'd want more detail than this. You might be better off specifying how much time you're willing to spend on Original Research projects on behalf of Covenant and/or Tribunal, and not limit the magnitude. Research can make Eve a famous (even Godlike?) magus, but she's right to look at the futility of the research.

11) Resources required for required services shall be provided by House Tremere.

I would assume so, but maybe add "or if provided for by Eve, she shall be compensated appropriately." Only Eve, with her specialized knowledge and resources, might be able to produce the pages and fine quality books, better than what the Tremere might have. So Eve could say "I'll supply the paper and materials, you give me the silver or vis to cover my expenses."

1) Eve shall maintain a correspondence with [spot for name] by writing at least two reports a month on the status of the Oppidiums endeavors.
1a) These correspondences shall be dictated through a scribe. This scribe shall not be Juno.

This is a decent offer, but I doubt that the Tremere would want it, considering they have Laterala. Now then, perhaps they don't trust her enough, maybe they would want this type of thing. If they did, I'd be watchful fo Laterala, she might consider you a spy then.

2) Eve shall provide one season of service every 13 seasons. This shall not take her beyond her sanctum.

Good luck with this. I really doubt this would be allowed as it's not enough service to the Oppida or the Tribunal, one season every four years or so? Also, why would you (Lamech) want this? Service means stories that your character would be involved in. You might have made a lab rat, but you should still want to participate.

3) These special duties may not be constructed to abridge other duties.

Again, good luck. Services would likely go to Eve's strengths, no doubt. But should circumstances arise, including Eve upsetting Laterala and the Opidda or the Tribunal, she should expect this to go right out the window and get services she really doesn't like. The Tremere aren't going to leave something like this on the bargaining table.

The thing to remember, is that while all of us will be arguing the deal that we get, we are not merely arguing with Laterala for rights in the Oppida, we're arguing for our rights in the Tribunal. Laterala is not absolutely parallel with the Tremere in her thinking I assume, meaning we might be able to get things from her that the rest of the Tremere might not agree with, but still we're arguing with the Tribunal for the most part. Our position is tenuous.

Having said that, I see a potential avenue to argue from. IMO, the Tremere are quite big on status, and while no doubt they are in charge in Transylvania, and have control over so much, an outsider might be able to eke out some considerations. Play to their ego and appearance. "You don't want to seem cheap do you? You control the entire wealth of Transylvania, where wizardy is for the most part not a crime! Surely you can spare these triflings for me so that I might write the very best tracti that can be had." The Olympic athletes of the Soviet Union enjoyed a lifestyle much greater than others, as long as they got results, just to use an example. Eve is a paid expert, she could rightly expect to be treated as such. Now then, be careful, the carrot is just one motivation that the Tremere use, the stick is also popular, and IMO they are expert motivators. So don't push it. But if you are careful you (or any of us) might be able to get great considerations be appealing to their ego and implying that they might seem cheap or miserly.

Oh gosh I think I've not written this clear enough at all. Many thanks for reading it over!

EEP! I think you got the exact opposite if what I meant. Those were supposed to be additional things. Everyone here has all those duties listed out. But we also all have special reasons to be here. Your character is an expert on the Fae for example. So Eve still needs to do everything that everyone else needs to do. But the Tremere also get free service. Now they can always request more, and require her to do the general stuff. But they also get a book or item opened. Eve's here as a refugee. Its sort of a way of saying "Please don't chase me out with excessive sitting in lab requests, I'll totally give you free stuff though too!" You get paid for your expertise in Fae. Eve gets paid for her expertise in writing and crafting. Its just Eve gets payed with the Tribunals laws.

That's in there because of the warping that Original Research can cause. At just two magnitudes it can give you a warping point, 10% of the time. You can get a hermetic breakthrough with but 3 warping points (average). Good deal. But at magnitude of 3? That Hermetic breakthrough means 2 average twilight and 6 warping points on top of that! If I read the twilight rules right that's probably like 17ish warping points. Much more costly. Gets worse as we go up from there. Eve isn't expecting original research orders unless its part of a large scale project. "Okay we want every magi in the tribunal to spend four seasons on breakthrough X." But for safety's sake. It can always be dropped. The Tremere probably won't order her to do it unless they want to rush a breakthrough anyway.

Good idea!

No making copies. Its basically saying that House Tremere owns the copyright to the books.

Basically Eve wants to be able to say as part of selling her book, give me two copies. I won't sell them, but I want my friends to be able to use them. Hmm... actually. The whole thing about a similar work is I think Eve can probably just rewrite the book with another season. (Okay, not RAW, but really?) Still rereading this it doesn't work as I want it too. How about Eve may retain no more than two copies of the book. These copies at the buyers option may be placed under the Oath of Calf and Cow for 49 years. Furthermore, any works that Eve writes that are sufficiently similar a magi would find no additional insights by studying the second work and its copies are also under the Oath of Calf and Cow for the same time frame. Eve may not sell these books or rent them. She may lend them or gift them.

Yes, and yes. Even though Eve isn't getting the full value, again refugee.

It fulfills the rules of the Tribunal, but it goes further. For starters per tribunal rules Eve could give a book to Very-Self-Important-Archmagus 27. Which means that archmagus could pressure her to do exactly that. So Eve wants to be able to say "Really, sorry I got this contract deal".

As the magi threads are finishing at different times, the Council chambers should be used for your magi to meet and have some RP before we have the meeting.

Ophelia thinks it is inappropriate for Jane, or any familiar, to be in the council meeting. Perhaps it is because she doesn't have one. Perhaps it's because it is for a council of magi. I understand that there is a close bond (True Friend) between Jane and Eve, but one doesn't take their best friend everywhere they go, all the time. And I certainly could see, as a player, that Eve shares everything that transpires in the council chamber with Jane, but there is a difference between what happens between Jane and Even in private and when Jane is actually in the council chamber.

Its a new place, think traveling buddies. She could probably be convinced to hunt mice, or go hang out with the other familiar. Or we can retcon it and avoid it entirely.

Hmm, Diotima would be inclined to bring her familiar to the first council meeting too. Unless there's already a rule in place against it. Mind you, Peripha is probably going to be bored within minutes and ask for someone to open a window so she can leave, but from Diotima's point of view bringing her familiar to the council is a way of making sure Peripha is acknowledged as a resident of Héviz too.

So I think Ophelia is probably going to have to object in character if she wants the familiars ejected from the council chamber.

It's up to you how you want to play it. Ophelia can speak her mind, or make it like it never happened with some quick edits. Ophelia has 5 traveling buddies. Don't think Eve wants them in the council, though.

Eh, I want the description of Jane in. Mention something in thread? Jane goes off to hunt rats. Or I could just add that in. A couple extra lines of discussion between Eve and Jane?

Anyone want to create a grog for Zoltan? His valet? Perhaps some 'comely servants'? :wink:

Sure, I'll make a comely servant who is warped by magic, and smells like garlic whenever she gets amorous...
Sound good? :smiling_imp:

Hmmm...we can do better I think. :confused:

You're right. Skinchanger in the form of a dog.

Pick me, pick me, pick me! Alright, what should this servant have... Venus's blessing and high presence of course. Charm. Anything else? A little witchery or education? The ability to skinshift into a cat? Premonitions so you know if your experiment is about to explode your lab?

The one virtue that I think would be necessary (and I'm more concerned about the Valet than the servants, I figue the servants will come and go), would be Unaffected by the Gift. It's a 1 point Virtue in the Grogs book.

So if you want to make the Valet, Unaffected by the Gift is a good start. Profession: Valet, Craft: Tailor, Guile, Folk ken, Carouse, Profession: Barber, maybe some Chirurgy, maybe Craft: Chemistry (perfumes and accessories). Things of that nature.

If you're looking at servants, maybe the 1 point version of Faerie Blood? Zoltan has strong faerie blood, and it might not look it, but I used the Sidhe as his template.

So if you're interested in making a Valet or Servant make one of those maybe, but remember they're grogs, they don't take center stage. The most common virtue they have is simply being exceptional in their job (Puissant or Affinity).

Grogs can and should steal scenes, though. :smiley:
Like Kevin the Costume Designer from the Producers. Stephen Tobolowsky's Needlenose Ned Ryerson in Grondhog Day.

Tell you what Lamech, why don't you go with the Valet? Think Jarvis to Tony Stark.

And I agree, they should get the spotlight now and then, no doubt.

I'm really interested, as an academic exercise, mostly, in actors and their craft. Inside the Actor's Studio is awesome. Kevin Pollak's Chat Show is good, too. He had Stephen Tobolowsky on, episode 114. That guy has had some really wild experiences, but the subject of Groundhog Day came up, and he was talking to Harold Ramis (director) about his character, that he felt he was playing it too big. Ramis said, no, your job is to be be big, as huge as you can be. Murray was the straight man, and had to play it small.

i love Inside the Actor's Studio. Watched it for years. Colin Firth and Hue Jackman are memorable. I think Brad Pitt and Robert Downey, Jr.had a very good ones as well.