My understanding (which may be wrong, as the one 5e game I played, I don't remember if we ever actually got through a season before half the group moved out of state) was that you spend experience once a season. And I think one season might be long enough for Celestria to get the Level One "Basic Questions and Answers...constant mistakes...cannot string a conversation together" level. The basics. "You...clean there." "What time lunch?" and "You. me. bed." The important stuff (for her, anyway)
I couldn't tell you about standard practices, as this is my 1st time playing ArM, let alone running it, and though I've now been playing in three concurrent games since November-ish, not one of them has given out any XP yet.
I'm calling this award "Adventure Experience," covering your departure from wherever you started from, arriving, and making it through the first council, and saying that you can all spend it now on anything demonstrative of that period.
Yes, XP...
- One can only claim XP from one source per season. So if you read a book/study from vis, and have an adventure, you can only take XP from one of these
- For magi, adventure XP usually means time away from the lab, which can lower lab totals (Which is yet another good reason to have companions and go on adventures with them instead of your magi, thus having a party of magus + companions instead of just magi)
I think I'll take some XP for Cecilia, but that's all. I did some RP with marie, esteban and gerard too, but too little IMO to warrant XP. She, on the other hand, was much more active, and was impressive in her gestion of the salty rebellion.
So reviewing the amount of content so far, the Aegis issue appears to be something that has been unresolved. I can't see any troupe consensus on the need for penetration, nor can I see anything from amul about a ruling one way or another.
Also, when does the current Aegis expire? Are the Magi and Maga now at the covenant using tokens given to them by Jamie? Just some curious questions I'd like to know about. Ra'am would find it interesting if he could come into the covenant and not sense the border of the Aegis...
I was under the impression that we had decided that Aegis of the Hearth does need to penetrate, which is why trading for a lower-level version is on the Big List Of Things That Need To Be Done.
What current Aegis?
That's kinda what I thought...
Yup.
IIRC:
- We currently lack an aegis, which is a big problem, which is great.
- We decided it resisted spells and impeded magic normally (the parma effect), but needed to penetrate in order to keep a creature out (the ward effect).
Yup.IIRC:- We currently lack an aegis, which is a big problem, which is great.- We decided it resisted spells and impeded magic normally (the parma effect), but needed to penetrate in order to keep a creature out (the ward effect).
Ok, so where do we stand on the whole Muto Vim errata and nerfing Wizard's Communion mishegoss?
Yes, this is quite problematic, and I agree with Erick Tyrell's premise. Yet, OTOH, the errata is logical.
The correction of the Errata by David Chart would require Wizard's Communion used for ritual purposes to have Sun Duration.
So, a lvl 20 WC would have an effective level of 10 for Aegis purposes.
For a lvl 20 aegis, you'd need at least 4 such WC, on average.
No time now for more.
With all this in mind, I tweaked my character concept to make Azura a Mercurian caster with a lv30 Aegis mastered. Should give her the upper hand in negotiating for covenant membership
With all this in mind, I tweaked my character concept to make Azura a Mercurian caster with a lv30 Aegis mastered. Should give her the upper hand in negotiating for covenant membership
I'll say that if you bring a Redcap with you as a companion, if amul allows it, that would be MORE than sufficient reason to have you join the covenant. Heck, having been without Redcap service, and a Gifted Mercere would almost assure Phoenix of a regular Redcap visit if you don't/cant bring a Redcap with you. That's your value.
With your Aegis, at level 30 you have no penetration. The issue of penetration, is one I'd asked about earlier. AFAIK no one in the covenant knows Wizard's Communion, let alone three other magi at 20th level to get penetration. If you have Vim vis, then that could be very useful, as it appears that the Vim vis hasn't been recovered.
Now, in the interests of full disclosure, I was going to blow the council away by Ra'am offering to invent a lvl 20th Aegis with Claudia's assistance in a basic, but fully setup hermetic lab (no penalties) running an early riser routine in one season. His lab total under those conditions is 40 for ReVi. Ra'am's casting score for the Aegis is Re (9)+ Vi (5) +Sta (2) +Aura(5) +Artes (5+1,spec) +Philo (4)=31
Then there could be ensuing discussion of whether to do it in one or two seasons, while two others spend spring and summer learning Wizard's Communion, or Ra'am, with Claudia, invents a 30th level Aegis over three seasons while three people learn Wizard's Comunion.
It was ruled that Aegis needs to penetrate for this saga? Or is that just an assumption?
It was ruled that Aegis needs to penetrate for this saga? Or is that just an assumption?
I don't think it's an assumption. See The Fixer's comment below.
IIRC:
- We currently lack an aegis, which is a big problem, which is great.
- We decided it resisted spells and impeded magic normally (the parma effect), but needed to penetrate in order to keep a creature out (the ward effect).
OK. That should probably be appended to the House Rules.
Mercurian Caster is awesome, I've always loved it.
The decision to have the aegis need to penetrate is simple, and your character illustrates it perfectly: You're barely 5 years out of gauntlet, yet you'd be able to keep out powerful creatures on your own (30 being in the upper range of published beasties) => This makes supernatural creatures slightly more dangerous for magi, while allowing more stories: The GM doesn't have to resort to Faerie Princes and Dragons if he wants something to sneak into the covenant.
Also, this keeps the rules unified: It's not that aegis having to penetrate is a HR under 5th, but rather the reverse, like for wards.
As it is, if, say, you've got a CT of 35, you've got 2 options:
- Aegis 30, lvl 30 MR and -15 to casting, keep MR 05 and lower outside
- Aegis 20, lvl 20 MR and -10 to casting, keep MR 15 and lower outside.
Both have their advantages, IMO, which is great
My advice? Hum... Probably the best thing would be for you to take the highest-level WC you can, and have Ra'am invent his lvl 20 Aegis while we learn WC on our own. IIRC, we have a tablet for a lvl 40 Aegis, so one we have enough WC, we'll be able to cast it. Even if it has only penetration for, say, Might 20 critters, the other effects will be quite useful.
What do you think of it?
EDIT: Serf's parma: Muto 05 + Vi 08 + Int 03 + MT 03 (You learned it, not invented it, I guess) + Aura 3 = 22. Unless I'm missing something (and, to speak frankly, I guess I am), you can't even learn such a high-level Aegis.
Also, this keeps the rules unified: It's not that aegis having to penetrate is a HR under 5th, but rather the reverse, like for wards.
Actually, it is a house rule. Wards were clarified as needing to penetrate, but Aegis isn't a ward, nor was it ever errata'd along with wards.
And as a Mercurian caster, she already has WC at level 30.
Serf's parma: Muto 05 + Vi 08 + Int 03 + MT 03 (You learned it, not invented it, I guess) + Aura 3 = 22. Unless I'm missing something (and, to speak frankly, I guess I am), you can't even learn such a high-level Aegis.
The bit you're missing is that Aegis is Rego Vim. It's Wizard's Communion that's Muto (and she doesn't need to meet the requisites for knowing WC since it's free with Mercurian).
The bit you're missing is that Aegis is Rego Vim. It's Wizard's Communion that's Muto (and she doesn't need to meet the requisites for knowing WC since it's free with Mercurian).
The Fixer indicated it was Serf's Parma, it's not a huge consideration to confuse the techniques when there are as many pieces in play as there are. Despite having the Technique wrong, I still don't think you can learn AoH at 30th level. Re (9)+Vi (8) +Mt (3)+Int (3) + (Aura) 3 is 26. Even with inventive genius applying (which would be an SG decision) you only get to 29.
Like I said above, you're looking for a story reason to join the covenant, I don't think you having the Aegis needs to be that story. Being Mercere is sufficient. Heck if the Aegis thing is that important, you know Wizard's Communion because of Mercurian Magic, so if Ra'am can invent the Aegis in a season, and someone learns Wizard's Communion from the lab text then Ra'am, Azura and the other person can combine to cast Aegis, still key to being able to deploy a decent Aegis within a season.
Being able to invent an Aegis is certainly not my entrance into the Saga story, and I'm more than willing to relinquish it to someone else. What it means is I don't get to play Ra'am as soon as I'd hoped. He goes straight into the lab. When I designed Ra'am I thought long and hard about where he is from, that eventually he'd like to resettle somewhere back in the Iberian peninsula, if not Leon, then Castille or some other local kingdom.
As I progressed in developing Ra'am and reviewing the resources of Phoenix I saw that it was very possible for him to contibute an Aegis, early. Perhaps earlier than the SG had really hoped, I am not sure. As it is, I'm not even sure if there is a functional, non booby-trapped, basic lab available (as aplayer). Whether or not the Aegis penetrates is really immaterial to this discussion, though. You have two players in a troupe style of play suggesting that you spend your starting XPs on something else, which is to your advantage. The Fixer caught my DEO spell not being able to penetrate, while also suggesting that it would eventually resolve itself. Based on that recommendation I changed it accordingly, in my case I got 5xp to spend elsewhere.
I fully disclosed what my intentions for my character were, so that player to player we wouldn't have any difficulty.
The Fixer indicated it was Serf's Parma, it's not a huge consideration to confuse the techniques when there are as many pieces in play as there are. Despite having the Technique wrong, I still don't think you can learn AoH at 30th level. Re (9)+Vi (8) +Mt (3)+Int (3) + (Aura) 3 is 26. Even with inventive genius applying (which would be an SG decision) you only get to 29.
I wasn't counting Inventive Genius. I'm including Puissant Rego (+3) and the Magic Theory specialty of inventing spells.
Being able to invent an Aegis is certainly not my entrance into the Saga story, and I'm more than willing to relinquish it to someone else. What it means is I don't get to play Ra'am as soon as I'd hoped. He goes straight into the lab.
Do you mean you don't get to play him as soon as you'd like if he does have to get in the lab to invent an Aegis, or you don't get to play him unless he's contributing the Aegis? I'm confused. What do YOU want me to do with my character? If you'd rather I don't play a Mercere because there's too much overlap with a Bonisagus then just tell me what kind of character to build.
I wasn't counting Inventive Genius. I'm including Puissant Rego (+3) and the Magic Theory specialty of inventing spells.
I missed your Puissant Rego, the +3 isn't listed at the Technique, so it is easy to overlook. I now agree you can learn the spell at character creation. Again, it's not really my point, or even Fixer's point. We mentioned that first but both presented a stronger case against your character needing to have Aegis. The House Rule, which (granted) isn't in the house rule sticky topic, is sufficient reason for you to spend the XPs elsewhere.
Do you mean you don't get to play him as soon as you'd like if he does have to get in the lab to invent an Aegis, or you don't get to play him unless he's contributing the Aegis? I'm confused. What do YOU want me to do with my character? If you'd rather I don't play a Mercere because there's too much overlap with a Bonisagus then just tell me what kind of character to build.
Yes, if Ra'am does have to get into the lab to invent an Aegis, I, as a player, don't really get to play him for a while. That's something as a player I can deal with, as it makes sense to the story.
As to your character, it is your character. Have an Aegis spell, don't have an Aegis spell. I'm not concerned with overlap with a Bonisagus by any means. I am saying that two players of the troupe thought you could spend the 30 xp better elsewhere. And again, Ra'am invents an Aegis, you know Wizard's Communion, some other player learns WC, and we cast the Aegis and it will have a very decent Penetration, since Ra'am's CS is 31. Your CS, is about 25. In my mind, it's a win-win, but I might be biased.
Wholehearteadly agrees with Johnathan
Actually, it is a house rule. Wards were clarified as needing to penetrate, but Aegis isn't a ward, nor was it ever errata'd along with wards.
With all due respect:
In 5th Ed, all non-indirect spells affecting someone need to penetrate. This is the general rule, and, as such, it isn't restated in every spell description, such as Pilum of Flame, Call to Slumber or Circular Ward against Demons.
It stands to reason that, should an exception exist to that general rule, it'd be stated clearly, as is the case for indirect ReTe spells such as Invisible Sling of Vilano. You'll find no such rule for the Aegis. Thus, why should it be an exception to the general rule, when it isn't stated to be one? I mean, where do you see written "Aegis doesn't need to penetrate"?
Now, used to previous editions, some people (myself included! I remember my surprise when I discovered this) originally didn't require Wards to penetrate, nor Aegis, thinking that was RAW, despite an exception being ever stated.
As the Wards topic brought much, much discussion and controversy, it was clarified in HoH: S ("Like any hermetic spell, these wards must penetrate"). That wasn't enough, some people still thought that they didn't need to penetrate, so that was clarified again in Legends of Hermes. You say it yourself: Clarified, not errata'd .
It is the same thing here. The fact that it is by far the most common HR doesn't stop it from being an HR .
You're almost right, though, as, originally, it seems it wasn't supposed to need penetration, but, as it worked fine with it, it wasn't errata'd to be an exception.
And as a Mercurian caster, she already has WC at level 30
Ah, yes! Mercurian get WC equal to their highest ritual. I had forgotten that
I wasn't counting Inventive Genius. I'm including Puissant Rego (+3) and the Magic Theory specialty of inventing spells.
For the record, as I am way too tired to check how that applies or not here, an error I learned the hard way: By Ars5 rules, Inventing isn't learning.
That is, to invent a spell, you start from scratch, gain 1 point per lab total > level, need to accumulate a number of points equal to its level and thus to double its level to learn it in one season. Both Inventive Genius and your specialty applies
To learn a spell, you use a lab text, and need a lab total > its level to learn it in 1 season. Neither Inventive Genius nor your specialty apply.
I think your specialty is a better one than "learning spells" (I took the same), but you might prefer it.