A 'Teleport' spell with non-Momentary Duration?

[Edit: typo in thread title]


Supposing a magus uses a Seven League Stride spell on someone else, but for some reason has D:Sun in his version...What happens?

Some arguments differ as to whether you believe teleporting is 'extremely fast travel through normal space' or it it's 'wink away from the one place and back at the other'.
In our saga it's the second method as we have no quarrel with terrain or closed doors.

So, the thing I thought and the Troupe could see the reason in this:

The target gets teleported to the place where the AC is to. Zap! This takes a moment. But the spell last untill sunset/-rise! So if he moves away, he is suddenly transported again, back to the same place. Even if it is only inches away. And this keeps happening until the spell ends. If he himself teleports away (with D:Mom we hope) he is instantly snapped back again. The real headache comes if the original magus casts the spell a second time on the victim, sending him to another place...

The other idea was that he winked away from where he was when the spell was cast, but his teleport did not finish until the end of the spell. But that seems odd since where is the victim during all this time? There is no 'hyperspace' he is hidden in! And if you believe teleporting is actually traveling the distance he would move at the speed which would take him the actual distance in the time the spell lasts. Sigh. So people can intercept him since he may not move very fast if the distance is not too great. And what can he do during this time? And what happens if he tries to interfere and go somewhere else on his own volition?

This ought to start a debate, am I right?

I agree with your reading for the duration on this kind of spells.

Then if two spells conflict, I usually use: either they cancel each other, or, if they are not directly opposed, the bigger penetration wins.

I think that the point of this spell is on Tethered Spells, you make on spell just like taht with Sun Duration tethered to a magic symbol on the floor or a door and for duration any can go to the place determined when it was the spellcasting. What do you think?

I would argue that this is a new spell and you have to describe the effect you want and to ask the SG on that :slight_smile:


That would be fitting with what MuVi says about meddling with other people's spells, so this is the closest thing to a RAW rule.

Oh, but I don't want to have that spell. In fact I'd rather it didn't come up in play at all!
But sadly the teleportation-Mercere's player asked: "What happens if I do this?". The current SG at that time answered "You'll give me a headache is what happens!"
But then we began talking, and my idea seemed the logical choice. And it sounded like good discussion material for the forum.

One additional way to handle such a spell is that the target get to re-use the spell at will during the duration. But I really think the answer is "what did you design it to do?"

I cannot remember any situation where a spell randomly gets a new duration, so either the caster/designer or the power changing the spell will get to decide how it behaves. If you want a sort of banish/prison spell it would continually move the person to the spot. If you want flexibility it would reactivate at target's or caster's desire.

What I don't think it can do is to hide a person for the duration. If you instant-move (my interpretation) you get there and then deal with how the spell works for the rest of the duration afterwards. If you move fast but is stopped by obstacles you need to decide if you arrive as fast as possible (like above, but can be blocked) or arrive at the end of the spell (in which case I believe you could be intercepted on the way)

If it´s not the second, it isnt teleport anyway.

Limbo? Subspace? Hyperspace? :mrgreen:


That does seem like the best answer. With a rather questionable quality of "best".

I think i would use this version personally.

For the player to answer the question "what was it designed to do" he must still understand the possibilities and limitations inherent in magic.

I used the "Pit of Gaping Earth" as an example. Perdo is Momentary - poof: the earth is gone. With D:Sun isn't new dirt tossed into the pit going to be destroyed for the entire duration? If so it's like the spell is cast and re-cast every other moment until it expires.
So the teleport happens gain and again for the rest of the day. Always to the same place. if the victim moves away he is snapped back. if he stands still nothing seems to happen as he is already there.

That's one of the examples used to explain durations on p. 112, so yes it is.

I'd think that both possibilities are true.

You can either teleport someone to a place and hold them there for the Duration (D: Moon would be particularly nasty) OR give them the power to hop about at will for the duration.

If we are speaking of mutantum magic, yes. Otherwise, the latter seems not possible.

It's always so hard to predict. But possibly, quite possibly... (I'll see what I can do). 8)

It's not defined one way or the other, but most(?) Troupes go with the "thru barriers" interpretation. I've experimented with allowing both, with the "thru normal space" type* being 1 magnitude lower than the listed book values, and also with that being the default and the "instant change of location" being +1 higher than listed. Both work.

(When "thru normal space", it Distance becomes defined as if by a string thru open barriers - so to get 5' thru bars, one might have to "teleport" 500' - out the open door, down the hall, up the stairs, out the top of the tower and down again - and then only if all those doors/windows were open.)

I like it! And I think you have it right.

It's just a Rego effect, which (in this case) is simply controlling a thing's location. So the "stronger control" should win out. If two magi cast something like Base 5 "move the target slowly in any direction you please", it would be identical. However, with many "levitate/fly" effects, additional magnitudes are included for additional speed or lifting power (> Size +1), and I think that a "stronger spell" should automatically win out over "higher penetration" of a lesser version - the two forces are competing against each other, not against magic resistance.

It would be exactly as if two grogs had their Strength magically increased, and then had an arm-wrestling contest - no Penetration would be involved.

If they are identical (or equally Based) effects, then they could either cancel each other out, or higher Penetration could win - this is a classic "struggle of magical power" between two magi. However, if there are different spells and one spell is designed to be larger and stronger, I don't see why (or how) a weaker spell with higher penetration should dominate.

(It's also possible, esp w/ Rego, to kill/break the thing struggled for, like two children tearing a doll apart. Ugly, but certainly possible.)

No, I don't see this. Nothing implies that "Duration" is tied to the time it takes for a spell to take full effect.


A spell almost never gives the Target the ability to control the effect, even if it has Duration. At best, the Caster would control the "hopping about" effect - they cast the spell, they control its effects. (There are counter-examples, but they tend to be far more complex, such as "fire breathing" or attaching wings to a target to let them fly. But Rego is controlled by the Caster, not the thing Rego'd.)


Adding Duration to some effects can create some odd end effects. I believe (that is, in my opinion) most spells invite an additional magnitude to change the parameters of the effect during the Duration. If either Target or target is to change, then at least +1 magnitude, with rare exceptions. The diff is a Pit of Gaping Earth (Dur:Sun) that sits in one location, or allows the Perdo effect to be moved around, eating up different dirt each round* - it should take more than "definition" to determine that difference. (Otherwise, every spell would automatically be "defined" as having this level of flexibility - and why not?)

(* With many effects, like CrIg, this would obviously take a Rego requisite, to move the effect around during the Duration. With Rego effects... it still needs +1 magnitude for a similar improvement in flexibility of location.)

However, once the spell was given an additional magnitude "for flexibility/complexity" (or just designed that way, depending on your interpretation), the mage could continually teleport the person, as an ongoing Rego effect to manipulate their location.

Knight to King Eight
ReCo 25
R: Touch, D: Diameter, T: Individual
This spell allows the caster to teleport the target of the spell (themself or another) 5 paces, as often as the caster wishes for the duration of the spell, so long as the caster can sense the target. Unless the mage is distracted, no Finesse roll is required for this short distance unless they wish to be facing in a new direction upon their arrival. 5 paces is just enough to move up on to (or down from) the next story in a building or one-story wall, but not much further. This spell can be quite useful in combat (until one's opponents begin to realize how to react appropriately whenever the target disappears), or to move quickly past a series of barriers, such as bars, windows or short gaps. Any velocity the target has at the moment of teleporting will remain after they teleport to their new location. If caster places this spell on someone else, the caster is the one who determines the when’s and where’s of the teleporting. Multiple castings would require Concentration rolls of 6 +3/additional target affected} for simultaneous manipulation, with similar penalties (-3/) for Finesse.
(Base 10, +1 Touch, +1 Diameter, +1 complexity)

(And that +1 complexity might not be necessary, but, as I've admitted before, I tend to be conservative in such, esp when suggesting spells on these boards.)

I know how that SG feels, but they have to get over it.

This Rego effect would be similar to a sort of "ward prison" - it traps the Target in one location for Duration. If your Rego mage is that powerful, they should not be arbitrarily limited in their ability. If the SG constantly explains "Shut up!", it will kill the game.

The SG - any SG who finds themselves in such a situation - should do 3 things:1) Remember that "having fun" is the goal. The Player wants to go there, let them.
2) Accept it, and plan for it, and create plots that either invite it or challenge it (or both). Get ahead of the curve and move above it.
3) Remember next time, and don't invite such power in the first place, if possible.
Good gaming.

I have used just such a spell with one character. The point was to move something to something else and keep doing it, basically moving something with another thing. I used Concentration, not Sun, though, which is more fitting. But the idea was that I wanted a clinging type thing. I used the Arcane Connection baseline so I could force the clinging to happen even if the thing to which it was clinging teleported.


One of my player had a quote for that, I'm looking for it. We were discussing the whole "whose spell would win a contest?" issue.

Found it:

If you have a bigger spell, then you are using a general tools. Specific tools (lower spells) are better => penetration, for equal casting total, is higher. :slight_smile:

You're confusing apples and oranges. Penetration has nothing to do with this, and nor do Casting Totals.
You are applying the Pink Dot rule here, just in a different skin.

Casting Totals are only important in 1) Penetration against Magic Resistance, 2) Certamen and 3) Spontaneous effects. This is none of those.

In the absence of Magic Resistance, a spell does what it does, and that is compared to the effects it's trying to counter, whether mundane, magical or otherwise. If 2 magi are magically struggling for an object, and mage A has a Lvl 30 spell with the strength of 100 men and a casting total of 25 (-5, but cast successfully), and mage B be has Level 10 "Unseen Porter" with a casting total of 11, the latter does not "win" because they have higher Penetration.

In the absence of Magic Resistance (the only time Penetration is applied), the spell is the "right (or wrong) tool" - not how adept the mage is in using a lesser tool.

This is incorrect. Take a look at MuVi.


Yeah, I knew that didn't sound right when I typed it. Whatever - that doesn't counter my position.