Adaptintg Spells - Help needed - Thank you

I was hoping for some help adapting a couple spells. I am new to spell creation.

Paternal Growth and Shrinking from Core pg. 131
Muto Corpus 15
R:T D:Sun T:Ind
Adds +1 to the target’s normal Size or decreases it by up to 2 points.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 Growth or two kinds of shrinking)

How have people used this spell? What happens if I add +1 to someone and they are in armour? Limited range of movement?

I am hoping to adapt the spell to a personal range and increase my character size by +2. Base level 3 allows for size change, but this spell added “+1 to growth and two kinds of shrinking”, I assume that is because it allows for shrinking and growth?

According to the muto corpus guidelines I need to allow my gear (armour, personal effects) to grow with me by using a req of animal and terram with aquam if I have liquids).

Suggested spell

Giant’s Growth
Muto Corpus
R:Personal D:Diam T:Ind
Adds +2 to the target’s normal Size.
(Base 3, +1 Diam, +1 Animal req, +1 Terram)

Is the above spell levels okay?

The next spell I would like to adapt is

Pit of Gaping Earth
R:Voice D:Mom T:P
The dirt in a circle 6 paces across recedes into the group, leaving a pit 9 feet deep. If the target area contains materials other than dirt, that material is not affected.

I would like to make fiery pits of gaping earth. Is this possible to create a pit in the earth that has fire damage to those who get trapped? Is this possible to create in one spell?

Thanks! Your help is appreciated.



For the variant "Preternatural Growth and Shrinking" you've described, I'd handle with (Base 3, +2 Sun, +1 Size) = Level 10. In this case, the extra +1 being necessary to affect your new size of +2.

The results of growing are that the affected character decreases her Qik by the same value her Size was increased by and increases her Str by twice that amount - this has the side effect of increasing Damage and reducing Initiative/Defence. Also, don't forget to recalculate the character's Wound ranges to conform to the adjusted Size.

I've never really given the matter much though, but would imagine that in most cases the target's clothing is ripped to shreds during the transmutation, but I can see certain types of Armor inflicting, say Protection injury and/or imposing a -3 penalty to actions until removed.

For Pit of the Gaping Earth, what you're describing is certainly possible, but it's not a very good idea.

The main advantage of PotGE as a combat spell is that it bypasses MR by virtue Perdo Terram destroying the earth beneath a character rather than affecting him directly. Adding a Creo Ignem effect to the spell then would make the spell resistible and still require Aiming. Such a spell wound also require Creo and Ignem requisites though I, at least, wouldn't add any extra magnitudes.

I would recommend a Muto Terram (Ignem) effect, turning the earth into fire directly.

The fire won't be able to damage anyone with magic resistance unless it penetrates, but that won't stop them falling into the pit, because the earth isn't there.

And as it's a muto effect, the fire will turn back into earth at the end of the duration.

Thank you both for the helpful tips. :slight_smile:

For the giant growth spell, the requisite requirements are free requisites. You don't need to factor them into the spell itself, but just factor them in when casting. A requisite is free when it doesn't cause a significant change to the base behaviour of the spell.

A small gotcha to watch out for is that spell size is on a different scale to creature size. For creatures, a size difference is x10 or /10 for every three sizes different. For spells, a size difference is x10 or /10 for every one size difference. This means that for every one spell-size, creature-size can be changed by three.

This applies for targeting spells (and be aware that all your corpus spells will stop working on you when you're size +2 because you no longer meet the criteria for base individual), but as for guidelines for growth... I actually use the table in RoP:M and allow one size-change for the base spell, and an additional size change on that table for every additional five levels. It means growing really small things to human-size is easy (spider -> giant spider), but growing big things to huge things is hard (horse -> horse-the-size-of-a-city).

Be aware that the "free requisite" thing is sometimes a cheap mean to use a higher base and I'm not sure RAW allow this.

Eg: shrinking yourself, base 3 in corpus; basic individual: up to +1.

Shrinking gold coins : base 4 , but +2 magnitude from gold, +2 from group. Basic individual: metal precious = 1/10th of a cubic foot.

Allowing someone to use a MuCo base 3 + free terram requisite to turn its purse full of coin is a quick way to use a base 3 instead of a base 10 with mandatory group target...

Generally speaking, I only allow free requisite when the base of the free requisite would have been at most equal to the base used by the spell itself.

There is a spell in the Magi of Hermes book for Hugh of Flambeau, Assume the Stature of the Giants of Eld, and Turb of Giants. Essentially they do the same thing, one is range Personal, and the other is a target of group, but they make the target Size +3. However, in there I didn't see any change to either Str or Quickness, like they list in the powers when designing creatures. The +3 Size though is good in and of itself; You can't be targetted by most Corpus spells and you have a considerable Wound adjustment for size. It does have requisites so that the gear grows also.

Does any increase in Size raise strength and lower Quickness, and the reverse if shrunk?

I don't think so: only some virtues (giant blood) and animals (normal size modifier) have this.

As for targetting: I think if you have a +3 size spell, you will STILL be targeted by normal corpus spell, because your essential nature is to be corpus size 0. LIke when you cast a MuCo(An) spell, you still are targetted by animal spells.

The opposite however: you are size +2 and shrunk yourself. you are targeted by both. Useful to be targeted by healing spells or characteristics boosts which, normally are not designed with size modifiers.

I would never allow this free requisite, because it gives too much power for the Corpus spell, when the Terram part of it is actually harder in itself. IMHO this is a fine example of where the requisite should add a magnitude, because it gives something extra. Also, I'd check to see if the Corpus base +1 mag is still lower than the Terram base needed for the effect, which I don't think it should be. Why should the size change to gold be any easier because you suddenly lump it together with a Corpus size change as well?

In general, if a spell is set to affect several Forms I add magnitudes for the req. If the spell needs to affect two forms in order to make sense - i.e. many Muto spells - the req does not add a mag. MuCo(An) change a human into an animal. Serf's Parma but isn't this precisely what the core rules say on this matter?

For free requisite i think that's what core says.

But for "+1 requisite" they say IIRC "when this adds a nice feature".

Another example of "nice feature" I used in one spell:

Create base metal is base 5.
Destroy property of metal is base 5 +2 metal.
I could have decided that this spell had base 5, +2 magnitudes for metal, raising the level at 50, but the already high level in addition to the requisite perdo made the SG agree to this one like that.

Another case where I did otherwise:

This spell used a base 5 instead of the base 3 since I felt using the higher base more adequate. Ignem and aquam requisites will create the light on candles (natural fire then) and water in stockage rooms. Since target individuals for water and fire are bigger than the one for stone (for ignem, you can argue what is the "normal campfire size"... I decided it was the same as stone), I used this one. If I had to calculate on the metal basic individual, I would have had to +3 size magnitude to match stone basic individual. Perhaps the SG will ask me to add them, not liking my idea of going with the stone basic individual, which will just be a pain in the ass because I will need to ask for one of the favors I own towards 2 - 3 fellow sodales to design the spell in only 1 season.

And for the reason I want that spell : [size=85]
The medium level (on the center of the sphere), is destined to a lab. I'll start with a +10 size lab (which is the current lab size), and when refinement and thing will raise, I'll expand the labs by moving walls. At most, the area is large enough for a size +100 lab, which I think is enough for a lifetime even for the most labdedicated magus. I intend to use a modified spell from experimentation ("flying castle") with another "create clouds" to hide the sphere in the sky. The magus would be quiet to work on the improvement of magic theory.
Perhaps other labs (normal ones) for his future sodales or apprentices... why not. The sphere is big enough to be a mobile covenant. For the aura... Well that's still the problem currently. Need to find something to create one, using the rules in RoPM which says what creates aura. That have a name but I fail to remember it atm.

It's of course a long term goal.[/size]