This, respectfully, sounds to me like a self-defeating argument. We know Ars Magica is not a begginer's game. No one is saying that it is, or that we should make it that via some magical procedures. Why can't I take the game as is, with help, with explanations, and with a strong community to back me up, and not be able to little by little get a hold of it? Sure, it won't be a cakewalk, but we are all trying to get people to play this game we love so dearly. I won't tell people to play another, 'easier' game first if they like this. I will teach them and help them.
Also, people play/played dnd 3rd/3.5th/pf/pf2nd as their first game constantly, and I think you can make some arguments about some of these games, but generally a 3-4th level character is not very much less complicated than a starting magus that's appropriately specialized and doesn't have any extra weird virtues. 5th is a bit of an outlier here in terms of most players, but you're probably setting up a new gm for a better/easier time with ars magica, so a bit of a wash there. I think its worth pointing out that gms are the primary audience for things like rpg books
This is central to the starter saga I am writing. There will be pregens, and the players are expected to play them, and to play the ones they are told to play in each scenario. The advice for the SG is based on what that magus/companion/grog can do.
I really do not think it is possible to introduce Ars Magica through written material any other way. On the other hand, I do think that, after playing through a six-story saga like this, the SGs will be able to run a saga for characters generated by their own players, and the players will have enough understanding of the game to create the characters they want to play. And that is what a starter saga is supposed to do.
As for plug-and-play, ToME, ToP, and TTT are, I think, about the best that can be done. (Hooks are also good, but they are deliberately very short — they are only supposed to be the hooks.) The authors can confirm that they are really hard to write, and still need adaptation to most troupes.
I hear that being questioned every now and again, but I am sure you know who your «we» is.
Isn't that what we are doing? Trying to at least, with variable degree of success?
The great limitation is that we do not know which other game the new Ars Magicians are coming from, and much less how they have played the other game. Hence we do not know what experiences they build on, or what they need to know.
On the topic of “designing adventures for Ars is hard, because magi are so different and capable of so many things,” I will note that there are decades of adventures for superhero RPGs that have grappled with this problem. Superheroes are extraordinarily diverse and often have story-breaking powers like mind-reading, the ability to pass through walls, eavesdrop on remote conversations, and so on. Nevertheless, many adventures have been made for this genre, including adventures that let the players make whatever character they want. Some are not very good. But others are, and have much to teach us. Obviously the genres are very different, but they share this particular design challenge, and they’ve been a great test lab.
Not sure what the implication here is (the «we» was in the context of this conversation), but I honestly haven't seen many people who categorically say that Ars Magica is a begginer's game. I can tell you what I've said: that a begginer SG should be able to pick this game up and run it decently.
I don't think this is such a huge factor, but we can make some guesses: Someone who plays Ars Magica likes historical and/or magic-centered games, such a list would be Pendragon, Mage, any of the WoD games, and to a lesser extend, D&D/Pathfinder.
I think that Pendragon is a great game, in part because it promotes a very big shift in thinking from the typical murder hobo game towards having a base, down time, personality traits, non adventuring activities...
I am not sure should is a useful word, but it is not one one could possibly disagree with.
The only text that is even remotely close to what I would have needed as a new SG, is the Nigrasaxa freebie. It helps because it does not try to explain very much, and it does not try to help very much, and certainly not with any kind of generic and universal advice. It is just one example of how one could weave a story, without wasting words. It is what it is, and it is clear to the reader what that is. I am very pleased that @David_Chart appears to be working on something similar but longer. We need more of it.
At the end of the day, it is the individual beginner who has to decide if ArM is a beginner's game, but we have to remember that human beings learn very little from explanations and procedures, and a lot more from examples.
Most of the games you mention, I have not played, and certainly not before I played ArM for the first time, but now I have played enough Vampire to know that I cannot assume that two seasoned Vampire players have the same idea of what roleplaying is. You can take the same ruleset and the same basic setting, and end up with games that have very little in common. I have had the same experience with AD&D, and obviously with Ars Magica. This is why it is so hard to find help in an Internet communities. We write from different contexts, and the reader has very few clues as to what that context is.
Stupid question, where do i get it from?
... says google
Fully agree with all three statements!
I've posted some session summaries from our online-based game.
It was really cool to read, especially seeing a group embrace troupe play!
I've decided to also post adventure summaries for one of our current sagas, played in person. Hope you enjoy them, though they'll be quite brief, just small summaries.
Reminds me that I'm taking my Actual Play thread back into the main ars magica forum. I'll edit it and throw up some updates.
It seems Scriptorium on Discord is no longer being used, which seems a pity.
So that we don't duplicate work, this weekend I'm going to create an index of 5th edition monsters.
Just flagging that.
Yes, it seems to have died down. But the Fan Grimoire is moving along again!
On my end, I've started writing up a whole bunch of at-gauntlet magi for beginners. It's something akin to the magi at the beginning of the core book, but I'm generally leaving more V&F open and making more functional builds. The core Flambeau comes to mind as being nigh-unplayable; that one probably couldn't survive a combat, and combat is nearly the only thing the "one-trick pony" can do. In contrast, I've got a Flambeau trained in the School of the Founder who can fling fire just as well but can also do a host of other useful things. I'm hoping to hit 30ish builds, trying to get a little variety in each House. Bjornaer is feeling tricky to me, as I'm avoiding complexities and exploits such as all that Bjornaer Fatigue, so I'm trying to think of things that aren't basically all the same with a different Heartbeast. I've got 2 Criamon (one headed toward the Path of Seeming, another toward the Path of Strife) and 4 Flambeau (School of the Founder, School of Apromor, School of Ramius, and Schools of Sebastian) significantly written, and I've started sketching 2 Mercere (Mercurian, Mutantes) out. In addition to leaving a lot of flexibility open with V&F and providing notes about customization like in the core book, I'm also writing similar notes about why I chose some spells or other options and how to use them effectively.
I liked the Scriptorium, posted one update of my project there. Unfortunately I can't sustain the effort of writing stuff in two languages, so it's all in spanish, at least until I finish it and do a proper translation. I'd quite like for folks to share more stuff there.
Share those, callen, please! I recently wrote up a blogpost on how to coach players and troupes choke-full of tips, guidelines and such from myself and a bunch of other people in the community. I would like to know what you build and how you do it!
I just posted 3 of 4 Flambeau rough drafts beside where you posted in the Scriptorium. The two Criamon and last Flambeau aren't to rough-draft stage yet, and the Mercere are only barely sketched out.