That spell is awesome!
Thank you all, I'm glad that Stones of Formic Discipline is so popular.
Andreva will want to learn both Edge of the Razor MuTe 20 (arM5 p154) and Hardness of Adamantine MuTe25 (MoH: Soc p37). So she'll want to get a hold of lab texts. I'm going to say that her detractors in the Confraternity of Roland prevent her from getting access notes for Hardness of Adamantine but edge of the razor is to common to allow this
She'll learn Edge of the Razor in one season and invent Hardness of Adamantine in 2
A lesser enchanted device Glove of Marble Lumber
22 terram
6 muto
5 magic theory
3 intelligence
3 aura
4 shape bonus
gives me a lab total of 43 enough for a level 21 lesser enchanted device.
Muto terram "change one property of dirt" seems to be a pretty powerful guideline for base 1. However, seeing as pumice is a real stone I don't feel that I over reached.
For Sword Immobile I think you need base 3 as that's a highly unnatural effect.
I used a similar spell for Object is Stubborn a little while ago here. The thread also chatted about the relative strength/ force.
I agree that it does seem very powerful. But I also agree that this appears to be within guidelines.
Here yes?
I like how you referenced the horsepower equivalents from transforming mythic Europe. I'd like to stick with my elephant description because I find it more descriptive and it ends up in the same ballpark as far as strength.
I can change the base level to 3, Andreva has the arts to do that. What gets me is looking at the Re Te guidelines there are three options base 1 move in a natural fashion, base 2 move in a slightly unnatural fashion and base 3 move in a very unnatural fashion. What goes where? I see in the example spells unseen arm apparently uses base 2 but unseen porter uses base 3. If you're moving something magically how can you justify a "natural fashion" at all? Perhaps a spell that topples objects so they fall? Does it need to be so subtle?
I chose base 2 because I judged not moving at all to be less unnatural than levitation and thus a lower base level. Upon reflection an object sticking in mid air even when you are yanking on it is probably just as unnatural.
I'm also now changing my mind on the movement spells requiring the +2 magnitudes for metal objects. The example spells don't use this.
I'll post revised stuff later.
I'm procrastinating in my rewrites of the spells with +2 magnitudes for metal.
In the mean time here's an enchanted device:
Andreva now has several spells to use on swords but if she wants to get the best use out of these spells it behooves her to have lots of swords close at hand.
Her relevant lab total is Muto 6 focus 6 magic theory 5 shape 5 int 3 aura 3 terram 22= 50. This means 2 seasons enchantment and 1 season opening the item
The example of base 4 terram involves doubling each dimension. Pessimistically this means that two extra magnitudes might mean each dimension shrinks to 1/8 original size (1/2 size for each magnitude). I said 1/16th. Is that an issue?
I'd be less pessimistic in figuring the change of scale than that, perhaps more like at least 1/16 or 1/32.
You don't need a Group target that can affect all the swords in the bag at once for sunrise/sunset?
I suppose it could also be created as Room and constant effect, with a trigger action for whenever something is placed within the purse?
Here is the way I have it planned; The triggering action is when a non-shrunk sword touches the inside of the bag. The swords start to grow at sunrise/sunset - They therefore become non-shrunken swords and thus trigger the effect and shrink back down until the next sunrise/sunset. Sunrise and sunset is a gradual thing taking about 2 minutes. The bag has unlimited uses per day.
Is that OK?
I'd really prefer that she could do an automatic re-triggering at sunrise sunset with a second environmental trigger but I don't believe that the rules allow for it.
This is a one season lesser enchanted device for Bausas
Looking at the rules for enchanted devices in the laboratory (Covenants p121.) I judge that it can provide a +2 bonus to a laboratory specialization in Corpus.
The name is derived from Petros , meaning stone. Not from Andreva's parents
I had insomnia, so I ended up with a few more questions about the bag.
Gemstone and metal is the same level for MuTe, so that one got answered.
How do requisites figure in for creating/using the effect though? If the sword is metal but has things like an elk antler or wooden grip wrapped in leather, do you need to include +1 or +0 requisites (and use the appropriate lowest form score for the lab total) or is it handwaved away as a kind of casting requisite?
Is Penetration for the effect worth considering, either now or later? I'm thinking specifically of a sword with a relic embedded in it - If the relic provides a Faith point or two, does the sword itself have magic resistance when not wielded? (also, depending on the relic, would this add Corpus to the list of requisites needed to shrink all swords?)
I too wondered about whether a Room variant might be better, but that's been brought up already.
It really shouldn't be able to handle anything that isn't completely terram. I'll update the description to make this clear. Andreva enchants the purse it so she can carry around a few dozen swords to use as targets for her spells. She'll need to get swords with chain or wire wrapped handles.
Penetration is going to be a non-issue. If she wants to carry a sword that is a relic, a faerie, a magus that she has transformed into a sword, or a magical object character per RoP: Magic she'll need to do it at full size.
I think that a target room variant is problematic when it comes to taking out or putting in an individual sword. you're targeting all of the swords at once with target room. How can you take just one out and make it full sized without ending the spell? Target room targets all things within the room at the time of casting (the exact words are "everything within a chamber"). Target room spells don't normally end when the things targeted by the spell leave the room.
Is The Convenient Warehouse power in MoH on page 69 worth looking at?
It is. It is looking to do much the same thing as Andreva's doing here. I actually was the author for Lambert, and if I were given the opportunity to do him again I'd use the target individual scheme I have above for Convenient Warehouse. The issue I see with target room is, by a strict reading, the effect needs to be triggered after the item is brought in to the room. Also, as I said above, it arguably continues after the item has been removed from the room. The issue with the target individual item is that in order to have it constant duration it would have to have 2 triggering actions rather than one.
I think that having multiple triggering conditions for a single effect should be a thing that can be done (IIRC I did an item like that on the Adelbert thread) but it is an option that the rules never mention as possible.
That's probably how I would do it.
That's an even better solution, but like you, I'm unsure if it would be doable.
Thank you! Bausas will integrate that one into his lab right away! (Well, when I'm back from practice, but yeah.)
Thinking about the +2 magnitudes for metal inherent in some of Andreva's spells, most noticeably the insubstantial duelist. I checked around to find more examples of Rego Terram spells that moved things.
Here are the first few I found
Spells that require extra magnitudes:
Autodictation
Wielding the invisible sling
Ominous Levitation of the Weighty Stone
Circular Wall of Shields
Spells that do not not require extra magnitudes
Unseen Arm
Unseen Porter
Invisible Hand of the Thief (a teleportation spell)
I've found examples both ways. I'm going to stick to the less advantageous versions that I have (so yes I've changed my mind again).
edit: I've also just updated Sword Immobile (because it needed a higher base level) and Indolent Duelist of Vilano, (because I saw that the base guideline is set up for stone, not dirt).
After accounting for a season working with Bausas to craft a longevity ritual for her. Andreva has spent 17 of the 20 lab seasons that I have set out for her this period.
For the three remaining Andreva is going to construct a new laboratory by using her quarrying magics to dig a new basement /foundation beneath the covenant (making liberal use of sounding the bones of Atlas to make certain that what she is doing is safe). She will arrange the lab to still be a part of the greater covenant structure so that she can take advantage of the magics that Janus has created there. I don't think that doing this is an overreach but I'd be happy to consider arguments otherwise.
It will be big and underground
two seasons will be spent getting the lab up per covenants page 106 and one season will be spent to integrate a auspicious shape as a minor laboratory feature.
Andreva will spend three additional seasons early in the 16-30 yr period to integrate a Greater feature (monolith), and superior decoration as additional features.
When complete the lab should be as follows
I'm treating well insulated as free for the subterranean lab
Is that appropriate or should she spend a season to integrate it?
I also considered having her spend a season to craft an enchanted device to keep water from seeping through the walls. I decided it was reasonable to think that she's still above the water table for a basement that is one level down from the preexisting structure. Was that too generous?