I was thinking about the two versions of Squad of Achilles with regard to Andreva being on the other side of the spells, remember this period I've decided that she should have a wizard war with a Confraternity of Roland magus/maga.
If the person that she wants to stab with her sword has a ward against iron/terram on that target is probably going to get run through because any ward that protects them is going to need to penetrate Andreva's magic resistance in terram, her talisman is protected by her magic resistance as long as she is holding it so good luck with that penetration. Meanwhile, the version that just grants soak won't need to penetrate and an extra 30 soak would probably be enough to protect one from any stabbing that tiny andreva is going to perform no matter how sharp her sword is.
On the other hand, if she casts Turb of Insubstantial Duelists (her penetration is getting up there, she might be able to use it) with as many die rolls as she gets and her killer finesse score (in this case perhaps literally killer) she might well do some significant damage to a character protected by increased soak but would be unable to touch a character warded against her swords.
Someone has a Rego Terram ward against metal up.
Andreva tries to stab this person with her metal talisman.
Andreva succeeds with little difficulty because their ward against metal does not penetrate her magic resistance.
In the second case
Someone has a spell that boosts their soak against metal items.
Andreva tries to stab them with her talisman
her sword bounces off of their exceedingly high soak. Magic resistance doesn't come in to play
but on the other hand
Someone has a Rego Terram ward against metal up.
Andreva casts Turb of Insubstantial Duelists and sends a flock of swords after them
All of the swords are blocked because the rego ward doesn't let them pass
and likewise
Someone has a spell that boosts their soak against metal items.
Andreva casts Turb of Insubstantial Duelists (or multicasts Insubstantial Duelist) and sends a flock of swords after them
Andreva's high finesse gives her a bit of a chance of getting a little bit of damage through even a very high soak, and with a large number of swords a little bit of damage from each would be telling.
One spell is not better than the other is all circumstances.
Ah, yes. I'd missed that the bit about penetration only and specifically refered to the situation where she used her talisman (emphasis above mine).
Then yes, you're absolutely correct on all counts good sir.
Even ignoring the protected nature of a talisman there is a spot where the storyguide might be forced to draw a line in there someplace. For instance, if Andreva somehow had her fingernails replaced with perfectly mundane metal, I believe that an argument could be made that her magic resistance still allows her to scratch a target with a protection from metal ward. Meanwhile it's pretty clear that the steel tip of a mundane spear is not protected by her parma. I'd like to protect armor that she wears from perdo spells thrown at it, but still have a spiked gauntlet bounce off of a rego ward. That's a pretty funny distinction that could, with sufficiently annoying players, bring everyone at the table down.
Agreed. Completely.
I'd just read your post as suggesting that "Because Wards have to penetrate, Wards are irrelevant against a sword wielded with magic", which made no sense to me.
The fault was all mine.
looking forward to years 61-75 I finally feel that, aside from shoring up her last few arts so she can take an apprentice, she's finally to the level where her art and ability xp isn't driven by what she needs to do address her weaknesses but by what she's interested in doing better (I should be so lucky when I reach age 86).
Regarding her arts, she needs to get grounding in imaginem and perdo. She'd like to increase her Rego, her Mentem and probably her intellego to be able to get penetration on her spells and to make the spells and devices she has planned. There's lots of other things as well now that I sit down but she won't have time for them all (vim, creo, muto, animal,& herbam).
For abilities, she'll finally get back around to single weapon after letting it slide for 50+ years. She'll never be as effective a with a sword when using it with her hand as she will when using her spells and finesse, but with the talisman it is a closer thing than it was and there are some corner cases as I discussed above where it could theoretically be useful. Keeping a low profile isn't likely one of these cases. It isn't that much less showy to be a tiny woman in her (apparent) 40's wielding a blingy, high quality sword with authority than to use her magic.
I'll leave magic theory alone for now more is always better but I can't justify it. With the possibility of wizard's wars, she'll want to increase her parma magica. I think that an extra levels in concentration, penetration, and artes liberales are overdue. She'll pick up a level of teaching.
Edit: here's 300 xp (I did 270 originally but decided that she'd rather short lab than study this period, next period she'll have an older apprentice and want more lab time).
parma magica to 7
single weapon to 7
teaching to 1
artes liberales to 2
penetration to 4
concentration to 4
imaginem to 7
perdo to 5
rego to 16
mentem to 12
intellego to 9
25 xp in spell mastery to net 50 (I'll spend it later)
29 xp in terram to bring it to 28 +3 (7)
I'll do experience for Grace as well. In the 46-60 period she did 25 xp per year and I didn't fill in the seasons where she wasn't on the lab with more study.
This period she'll have more study time than Andreva not only because, as always, she won't be needed in the lab every season that Andreva is in the lab, but also because Andreva will need to teach her apprentice during some of he seasons.
I'll start off as I have before with 25 xp per full year but I'll probably give less xp for the rest of the time (but not none as I did last period).
For 250 xp
She'll get magic theory to 10 for 50 xp
Brawl to 9 for 85
Awareness to 6 for 30
Divine lore to 2 for 10
Medicine to 2 for 15
chirurgy to 3 for 30
Profession scribe 3 for 30
She's got a hankering for more magic theory but I imagine that her supply of books is going dry, so she starts to pick up profession scribe to give her a hand in resolving this. She also picks up some skill in medicine and chirurgy because she's really interested in keeping Andreva alive and she's also grown rather fond of many of the other humans. Also with her concern for staying alive and keeping Andreva alive she increases her brawl to 9 and awareness to 6.
Andreva has twenty seasons this period in the five years she's not studying
I'm thinking 4 or 5 seasons for wizard's war stuff
4 seasons for devices to assist our ship
A few seasons for a spell device or ritual to shuffle around all of the rooms in a subterranean structure to suit her whim plus a season or two to make rego terram digging spell of 8-10th magnitude because she wants to dig well and I want to explore how much better level 45ish is than level 20 for two spells that do more or less the same thing.
4 or 5 seasons on an apprentice and that doesn't give me 20 but somehow I still never seem to get everything that I want to do done in the seasons that I have.
Well, you could always look at raising Andreva's Com and author a book or two. Or look at making some of that planned excavation into a Great Work or two.
Wait, is this still in the +46-60 period? So here Grace surpasses Janus in raw knowledge of Magic Theory, had he not had Puissance with it...Janus is torn between admiration and jealousy - I think maybe there is an opening for a Personality Trait change for Janus
He should now be sufficiently motivated to hit the books.
These posts are about 61-75. The 60 year character sheets are up on page 15, please give them a look and see what abilities Janus would wish to use for his purposes.
If andreva is going to take a wizard's war seriously I think she'll want a lot of the following
The ability to move very quickly: grace has some of this with Graceful Sprint and steps of urgency. Some genuine teleportation spells would be better.
The ability to detect the invisible: She can't do this and I doubt that her intellego score will get her to the point that she can penetrate with any sort of a spell that can reveal the invisible via intellego. Therefore she'll want to have some other way of doing this perhaps by spraying clouds of damp clay in the air or some similar device.
Good Magic resistance: she raised her parma to 7 that seems pretty strong to me. Her flawless magic allows her to really boost this against some specific spells (notably, she already has doubled resistance against arcane tunnel spells and aegis of the hearth).
The ability to hide: Her perdo deficiency and fairly weak imaginem make invisibility a problem. She'll need to make due with muto imaginem
A way to attack through magic resistance: Indolent duelist of Vilano does this as does stabbing with her sword. Of course anyone who declares wizard's war on her is going to be prepared for an attack by a sword she;'ll need to have more than this.
A way to take down magic resistance: once again her perdo deficiency limits her. With Perdo Vim not a viable option for her she'll have to go with Rego Mentem. Rego mentem seems to be a better choice against stronger parmas anyway.
A way to defend against the attacks of her opponent. She has rego wards against terran and ignem. She has to rely on magic resistance against mentem and corpus, she can have animated swords parry many sorts of mundane attacks. I can easily see her getting ended by a 30 pound hunk of hardwood flung at her face in an invisible sling of vilano fashion.
A way to detect arcane connections so she can avoid leaving her's around and collect some belonging to her opponent. Her InVi isn't bad but I don't think that she can spont these things (I'll work it out). As far as destroying arcane connections to herself, she'll probably have to rely less on perdo vim and more on creo ignem.
As I said above she'll devote 4 or 5 seasons to this. That isn't enough to address everything on the list but she'll hit what I think she'd develop to address these needs in that amount of time (not necessarily the most minmax choices, but not ridiculous either). Before I go forward with that, does someone think that my list is missing something critical that I need to consider first?
Andreva's perdo vim total is
perdo 5
vim 8
int 3
aura 3
Magic theory 9 (for inventing spells)
lab quality 2
Grace's int 3
graces magic theory 11 (for helping)
44 then cut in half to 22.
That's enough to invent revoke the protection of bonisagus and wind of mundane silence both at level 5 so she can master them for magic resistance.
Her Creo vim total is 51.
So she can invent 25 levels of spells.
I was hoping for her to be able to learn this for magic resistance mastery but she just doesn't have the lab total
I'll see if I can spare a season someplace along the line. But realistically, while Andreva doesn't want to die, she also doesn't want to spend her life desperately running from death, that's no way for a Jerbiton to live.
She'd like to have a version of Disguise of the Transformed Image that she can use on both herself and Grace, preferably simultaneously. It needs to be able to make Andreva look a bit bigger and Grace a bit smaller. A size -1 woman with a size +3 war horse definitely sticks out.
Her Muto Imaginam total is
Muto 10
imaginem 7
int 3
aura 3
Magic theory 8
lab quality 2
Grace's int 3
Grace's magic theory 11 (for helping)
total of 47
with a lab schedule bonus she can push this to 50 and make a level 25 bond enchantment effectively just disguise of the transformed image with a target of group. I figure that with the target group limited to Grace + Andreva broadening the range of possible images to include horses is reasonable. Does anyone see an issue with this?
As a result of this power Andreva takes to eating more apples and Grace develops and interest in sculpture.
These are all similar spells, and you just need mastery for a similar spell.
Surely you can come up with the level 10 version? It only gives you a single Warping Point, but it's the same guideline. Making it (easily) a similar spell, which you can then master for Resistance.
Even if she goes for a level 10 effect she'd need to get her AC refrigerator spell to level 15 in order to invent them both in a single season. Even given her concern for preparing for a wizard's war there are other things that will take priority. Her resistance versus vim is 43, it won't necessarily stop someone with an AC, but it is a formidable hurdle. I'll see if she has time later. It is a common way to attack magi her age and older but at some point she's going to need to back off the defenses or she'll be spending seasons working out a defense against being pegged by a mollusk flung at supersonic speeds by the invisible snail shooter of Vilano.
And now that I've thought about it, if you're interested in killing OoH magi, it is tough come up with a spell that would be as effective as Invisible Snail Shooter of Vilano. It bypasses parama and the fraction of magi who are sufficiently hard core to have a ward up that protects against snails is pretty darn small.
Going on, her Rego Mentem lab total for spells is a bit better
Rego 16
Mentem 12
int 3
aura 3
Magic theory 9 (for inventing spells)
lab quality 2
Lab Rego bonus 6
Grace's int 3
graces magic theory 11 (for helping)
total of 65
She can make a level 30 spell in a season. She wants to use it for a similar spells bonus to her lab total so getting the base effect right is critical. I'm going to use base 15 - Control a human being as long as you can see him.
I have a feeling that the target of this spell should get a roll to break out of it if they are controlled to do something exceptionally self injurious such as jumping off of a cliff. I couldn't find rules to support that in my brief look.
The next season Andreva uses rego craft magic to tattoo her left forearm with a small tattoo of a crown with a walnut staff. She enchants this tattoo as a charged device with but a single charge
Rego 16
Mentem 12
int 3
aura 3
Magic theory 8
lab quality 2
Lab Rego bonus 6
Grace's int 3
graces magic theory 11 (for helping)
Similar spells bonus +6
Shape bonus +8
total 78
The following season she makes an identical tattoo on her right forearm and enchants it using laboratory notes producing 16 charges.
OK that's six seasons on wizard's war preparation when I originally said only 4 or 5
Looking back at my original list I'll add the note that A Rego Terram spont to disperse large clouds of damp clay crystals to detect invisible targets is (base 2 +1 touch +2 group) level 5, a non-fatiguing spont for her. A spell to detect arcane connections isn't in the cards for her.
And now that I've thought about it, if you're interested in killing OoH magi, it is tough come up with a spell that would be as effective as 