I like member or not. You meet requirements for membership, you are a member. Most covenants have tiers, I am not sure I like it.
For tractii, you only get one season, for summai, I Think 2 is good. It means you can get good development. Considering inventing spells can be 2-5 seasons using a book for 2 seems reasonable but this makes two of us, do others think it should be 1 or 2
No automatic grant required from stocks but council can vote vis from the stocks twice a year if they want. Nothing stops them. Still I guess we need a vote on this matter since I said 1/2, you say 1/3, qcipher said 1/4
If the membership agrees to this as part of being member, then it technically isn't against the code. It is voluntary to belong. Still I am not that invested in this clause if many of you want to remove it.
first in membership in covenant, then Membership in order, and then years in age in that order.
I would rather make it a duration limit of time away since regent might need to go to nearby town to negociate for supplies or represent us before neighboring lord, etc.
Council decides. IT could be lottery, it could be age of membership, could be some other means. It is to allow experimentation in methods. Keep in mind, the council is all Mages, it is US. IT is not some nebulous unknown body. It is the five of us voting. We are the council. Considering that several of you are really for lots of vis distribution, I suspect the council of which you have votes will be fairly free in the distribution. THe idea is no automatic distribution but forcing the group of us to honestly think, what do we have, how much should we distribute.
1 season a year for faire until it is success and 1 additional season every other year for adding to library, adventures to build our vis supplies, making items for covenant, etc...... Is already something that can be done with the charter as I wrote it.
OK how we doing on the charter? this is actually going a lot faster than I expected. It's very quick when we can speak or chat, but it looks like we're settling on the last details. And like any group that signs an agreement we'll likely go back and hammer out the fine details.
The 2 seasons every 8 can make more sense.
I want 1/4 vis surrendered to the Covenant.
Summae can be kept 2 seasons.
Lottery decides the order of vis dispensing, once that's done we pick pawn by pawn in order.
I'm there with Bjorn about magic items. It's meant in good faith and companionship for the Covenant, but if the Covenant needs an item or spell, that's what seasons of service and commissions are for.
A finalized ruling on how extra work for the Faire must be decided on. 2 Seasons per year total until we get the hang of running the Faire maybe works.
We have 5 or 6 mages, I don't think we need all the mages for the fair every year. However,
If we want, we can have very mage work faire every year until it is going well and assuming 6 mages, 3 mages a year doing the extra season for covenant development. This would mean 5 seasons every 2 years initially and we can then taper off back to 2 seasons every 2 years as faire is set. This is in charter as written as long as we add a line
At least half the seasons in service to the covenant performed must be for assistance to the faire.
So far two votes to strip (Bjorn and Qcipher) the line about loaning magic item, one vote (siobhan, she has two but isn't so much enamoured for it that she is using both) for keeping it. Who is our other people and why aren't they chiming in. )
We have 1 vote (siobhan) for 1/2 vis from expeditions, 1 vote for 1/3 (forgot who) and 1 vote for 1/4 (qcipher), what is the rest of the vote? (note Siobhan techincally has two votes and is both here)
I want 1/2 vis surrendered to the Covenant as a start later a recudtion to 1/4.
Agree with Summae can be kept 2 seasons.
Agree with Lottery decides the order of vis dispensing, once that's done we pick pawn by pawn in order.
Agree with Bjorn about magic items. It's meant in good faith and companionship for the Covenant, but if the Covenant needs an item or spell, that's what seasons of service and commissions are for.
Okay, I added the line about at least half seasons of service must be for faire.
I removed the loaning requirement for items. I did leave in the right of first refusal for selling items but added restriction that it does not apply to commissions.
I added the distribution of vis to be pawn by pawn selection with order by selected lots.
I left vis surrendered to be 1/2 for now. In the future, the council can vote to amend this if we see the stocks are getting sufficiently large enough.
Books can be kept two seasons still.
I think that the only issues are the use of sigils for tribunal
Anything else that needs to be added for the faire.
It seems like the main issue left is about gathering the votes and going to Tribunal. Rhodri is fine with that, he'd rather not go to Trbiunal anyway, but instaed hold a council meeting to try and decide how the votes will be used. (edit which I see is how it's set up anyway.)
[i]I still have an issue with how much vis is surrendered, 1/2 seems too much to me, and I also feel having a provision in the Charter about how magi treat magi outside the Covenant is unnecessary and would be difficult to enforce. Imagine trying to hold Agitatus to that provision.
I would say we leave that out and if it becomes a problem with one of the covenant member's conduct we address it then, and keep it on an individual basis rather than a rule by the Covenant[/i].
Let me re-read what we have, and we'll be starting up soon. Aside from the council meeting and moving in there won't be much else going on, and we'll likely to go to Summer.
Acacius would like that each magus vote as an individual when it comes to a tribunal. There is nothing that does prevent magi from agreeing beforehand on a course of action and vote at the same thing at the tribunal.
OK, do we want to come to a decision now and then amend it later? Or do we want to hammer out the remaining details.
Regarding Tribunal, we can say that at least one Magus will go to Tribunal, then remind the Covenant about the possibility of bringing the votes of those who do not wish to attend. And have a council meeting before Tribunal to discuss the upcoming events. Anyone though would be free to attend if they'd like to. If we want to be a bit more unified we could say that if you don't want to offer your vote to go to the Tribunal but desire to have a voice in the Tribunal then you should attend the Tribunal as well. In other words you can't decide to not go and also not surrender your vote. That places the important on civic duty to our Covenant and the Tribunal which affects us all.
I think we should leave behavior issues to the Order and live by the Oath and the Code rather than put in provisions of civility to magi outside of the covenant. Just don't put it in, but perhaps leave it as something we can have a council meeting on if it becomes an issue. Again I see an issue trying to keep Aggie to follow this.
Finally the Vis surrendering. That's one that Rhodri is sticking with.
We need to hear from everyone please so we can put this to bed. And we can amend it later.
Okay, I have been trying to amend things in my charter as we go along but if you are changing things: Create the wording that I can insert into the correct place. I think we have three votes (Siobhan with two, Someone else with 1 (I will have to back up to see)). Siobhan is taking a very long view of things. Start with conservative towards covenant general resource and then if over time, we see that we can drop that 1/2 to 1/4 or increase vis distribution, then we amend. It is easier to ease restrictions and remove a limitation than put one into place. People are always more willing to vote less of a tax on themselves.
Someone needs to word the tribunal section for what you are talking about:
I am not sure which line you are refering to though when you talk about dealing with mages outside the covenant.
OK I think you're right, it may have been under read and over stated regarding rules of conduct. Here is where I first noticed it:
That's the closest thing to it, and I believe I read more into the actual provision than was needed. So it's not as restrictive as I initially thought. But at the same time, is it even necessary to include in the Charter since the Oath already polices it? Rhodri would say no.
And at this point, Rhodri will agree to the larger surrender of vis with the provision that it shall be examined later and at regular intervals for ammendment (either up or down).
As for the vis thing being amended and changed, it can be brought up 4 times a year on the first day of every season to suggest that it be amended. Of course if people don't agree, it won't change but nothing prevents someone from bringing it up every single covenant council meeting.
Amending the charter is easy, bring it up at a covenant council meeting (there are four of them required a year, first day of each season, and who knows how many other misc ones and follow process in last section of the charter for required vote.)
We need the revised wording for the tribunal section? Which of you are going to created it?
I replaced the outside relations section with the following:
X MAGE FAIRE
As tasked by the Tribunal, the covenant shall hold a mage faire every year to encourage trade and exchange of knowledge and arts as was the Purpose of the order as founded by Bonisagus. The covenant shall be responsible for providing the grounds for the fair and protecting those at the fair from mundane threats and interference.