Covenant Charter

As Arthur pointed out, we ought to start discussing the covenant charter and what we want it to provide. Here is a list that I cam up with of things to consider.

What offices will we have?

Makeup of council
Meeting frequency
Method of casting votes
Determining result: simple majority? Different requirement based on type of vote?

Who gets a vote? One magus-one vote?
Are any special votes granted? Does anyone have the power to break ties?

Ownership of resources: who owns what
Payment of general upkeep
Maintenance of member labs
Maintenance of a guest lab

Voting rights
Upkeep right
Laboratory right
Library access
Magic item access
Vis salaries?
Mundane salaries?
Different levels of membership?
Guest status

Follow the Code of Hermes
Gathering vis
Assist in fulfilling obligations to outside covenants (favors Flaw)
What else? Seasons of work for covenant?

What kind of vote does it require?
Do we have a low crimes/high crimes distinction?

I'm sure I've forgotten things. Feel free to add to the list.

Is there a reason not to start from the Quesitor-acceptable base document, and change what we want to change?

No reason that I can see. But those are all points we should address, i.e., do we like what's in the base document or want to change it.

My list is meant to me more on the order of talking points.

Also how often do offices change? Do we have an internal tokens and shards type economy that echoes the tribunal one?
Though with an autocrat on staff we probably won't need too much in the way of offices...

Obvious choices for a covenant council meeting is either seasonaly or annually. Personally I favor annually.

We should also have some reward system for independant services to the covenant (such as discovering new vis sources the covenant can claim)
also we probably need rules regarding things such as personal versus community library (how long should a magus be missing before their books go to the library?)

Keep in mind I have no magus characters, so I don't get a vote on any of this...


Proposal: In addition to a leader, we also have a Librarian, a Treasurer, and a Herald. These all are voted on each Tribunal.

Proposal: We have one turb representative on the council. This would be a non-magi voting member of the council. The representative serves for one Tribunal and may be reappointed.


Proposal: The covenant will maintain a guest lab.


Proposal: The covenant will devote the same amount of resources to the upkeep of the laboratory of each member magus.


Proposal: Member magi will have a duty to spend one season scribing Lab Texts within two years of joining the covenant.

Proposal: Member magi will be required to spend one season of scribing Lab Texts or copying books per Tribunal.


Proposal: Any vote on Censure will require a 2/3 majority.

Proposal: Have the schoolmaster on the council. He is a Failed Apprentice, so knows a lot about the Order and has a lot of valuable knowledge. He is also responsible for the school -- thus the mundane relations aspects vs the nobility. He will, of course, ask for equal voting rights. :laughing:

What if a magus doesn't need it? Perhaps allocating a salary for the upkeep of their laboratory and whatever other expenses they have might be fairer. Say 10 pounds per year. That way, if one is spending more on their lab they need to come up with the money to pay for it.

Why specifically call for scribing services? As a Verditius my magus will have other ways to contribute to the covenant. Also, copying books is not a great way to use a magus' time. Training our scribes and illuminator in Magic Theory so that they can do the copying is much better.

Just an idea: Perhaps the services should be accounted in some sort of tokens, with obligations in the form of shards. Essentially, each magus starts with a covenant shard, with another two given them after each tribunal. Each time they perform a season of service, they earn a covenant token that can cancels one of his covenant shards. Then magi can trade tokens and shards with each other in exchange for services.

I'm good with the other proposals.

He's the obvious choice for the representative. And given that we're a school, maybe we do want to make him the permanent non-magus representative. What do people think?

That's a good idea.

You make a good point.

I like that idea very much.

It depends on his relationship with the covenfolk. He was trained as a magus, and the magi have put him in a position of authority over the school, so the covenfolk might see him as "one of them [the magi]" rather than "one of us".

When Trogdor mentioned a turb representative, I thought he meant the fighting grogs. Certainly, from their perspective he would be "one of them", but more as a noble/wealthy master rather than a magus, because they wouldn't be aware that he was once an apprentice.

Of course, the autocrat should probably be called upon when discussing things of mundane import, like expending the staff/buildings/sources of income. He may not need to be a member of the council, however.

I meant the covenant in general. Sorry if I used the wrong term.

Proposal: Charmion the nymph believes that as convenant patron she should have a special place in council meetings, and the right to veto decisions if she feels they would adversely affect her or her spring. She also wants the charter to be written with lots of flowery language acknowledging her as patron, and for the council meetings to include a ceremony in her honour. Since her might is restricted in winter, she suggests that annual council meetings be held at the summer solstice.

(I haven't read The Sundered Eagle, so apologies if this doesn't match the normal covenant-patron relationship.)

I must confess to being a bit rusty on the Thebes Tribunal myself. Are patrons traditionally given a vote in council?

Not as far as I could see.

Also, since Chamion is narrowly cognizant, how would such a seat fit into her story? It seems to me that she would be more interested in them restoring some form of cult to her than in participating in the day-to-day affairs of the covenant.

But then, I may not understand how faeries work. They hold very little appeal to me.

My thought was that Charmion doesn't want to take part in the day-to-day running of the covenant, but she does want a central role in its ceremonies, including its council meetings. Even if the magi weren't explicitly worshipping her as a deity, they would be performing ceremonies that honoured and respected her, which is close enough to partially satisfy of her craving for worship.

I was thinking her special power of veto would be instead of an ordinary vote, not in addition to it. An ordinary vote would make her symbolically equal to the magi, when she wants to be symbolically superior to them. A power of veto, even if she never exercises it, makes her symbolically superior to the magi and helps satisfy her craving for honour and respect.

She also believes (perhaps incorrectly, but she is only narrowly cognizant) that her existence is tied to that of the spring, and she doesn't yet trust the magi. So, although she finds most of the council's decisions too boring to want to vote on, she wants to be able to veto anything that she thinks would threaten her.

I might be willing to agree that she would get a veto on any votes that relate to the spring. But I'd be very leery of giving her a blanket veto.

A veto on everything is what she'd demand first, but she would grudgingly accept just a veto on votes relating to the spring.

That works for me.
I would be happy to include the requirements that the Tribunal begin with proper acknowledgment of our thanks to her for her patronage. (I am presuming that one of the good writers among us can find words that will sound suitable to her but not offend our magi sense of pride and importance.)

It was proposed that we implement a system of shards and tokens for the covenant to represent work owed to the covenant. The idea was that they would make giving your service to the covenant more flexibility. Also, they could be freely traded back and forth, meaning that if you could trade away a Covenant Shard to another member, essentially trading your service to the covenant for some service to the other member.

Here is some language that we might consider adding to the charter. As with any suggestion, this is not meant to be a final draft, but merely a starting point. Anything can be added or deleted as desired. I just figured we needed someplace to begin debate.

In particular, I'd like to hear what people think about the two shards a year award (basically saying that any member owes two seasons of service to the covenant each Tribunal), the punishment for having too many shards, and the award of shards for bad conduct.

(Or people could tell me that they don't like the idea of having Covenant Tokens and Covenant Shards, and I'll let it rest.)

This is particularly unneeded double jeopardy for full fledged magi, I would suggest keeping it more for probies, as a full member has already proven their due.

Any Probationary Member or Full Member convicted of a Low Crime by the Tribunal shall receive one Covenant Shard. Any Probationary Member or Full Member convicted of a High Crime by the Tribunal shall receive three Covenant Shards. Any Full Member censured by the Council of Members shall receive one Covenant Shard. Any Probationary Member censured by the Council of Members shall receive one additional Covenant Shard if he or she rejoins the covenant as a Probationary Member.

Id also consider with the importance of LRs and them being the lifeblood of the Magi who will reign on, aiding another in such a respect in the lab to give an additional token. We all want to live as long as possible and working together in this regard would show just how much it is important the magi work together.

What is the impact of being censured?