Yeah, I forgot about that. I'll remedy it some time in the next few days.
As for the rest, let's see what the others think.
Scott
I've just posted the final draft of the library to the Covenant thread. Good work, Salutor!
Salutor, I just noticed you've included the 12 build points for the enchanted device in the total--that was actually bought separately in the covenant build, meaning we have 17 more library build points available (those 12, plus 5 more to get up to 683 from the 678 in your version) if anyone has a burning desire for something.
Scott
I think 678 is right over 683 (before we allow for the enchanted device, which you're right I'd got wrong).
The maths works out as:
683bp (original base) - 10bp (swapping out a minor virtue for size +1 on Gregorius' lab) + 5bp (cost of vis incorrectly calculated).
Of course, given that the lab sizes have gone a bit out of the window, you might want to revise that somewhat.
I suppose that's what I get for not counting the squares on my own map correctly. I'll have to look at the maps again to figure out what the numbers should be.
Scott
Thinking about this, I'm going to make a change to this. When he rolls finesse on the group, I'll spend a confidence point to raise the finesse level to 19, which should give reasonably seasoned timber (assuming it's a Average difficulty task - if not, I won't spend the point).
He'll then stop casting, so he shouldn't get the second botch.
Seems to me they can be discovered via several routes:
Adventure. As in, through roleplaying.
Research. Magical creatures may trade information on how to obtain vis, as might research into folk lore and the history of a region.
Investigation, using lab/library rules and seasons of study to determine the best method of refinement.
I think both Magic Lore and Magic Theory would yield useful information in the pursuit, though obviously of very different types.
I've realised the current vis stocks are vastly over-stated - we started with 100, and have presumably added two for the Rego vis (although I don't think anyone has rolled a botch check to collect it?), but we've also spent quite a lot:
Aegis - 8 pawns in 1226, 4 pawns in 1227 =12 pawns Rego or Vim.
Lab equipment: 49 + 67 = 78 pawns of Cr/Te vis for the Laboratory of Verditius/Bonisagus rituals. Which reminds me I never actually rolled Viola's lab creation: no botch (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3274291/).
Corpus vis for caladrius: 6(?) pawns of corpus.
That's a total of 96 pawns of vis, so we're left with 4 + 2 Rego (assuming it wasn't used for the Aegis) + whatever we've collected over the two years.
The vis for the lab equipment wasn't part of the original 100--it was in lieu of they money needed to set up the labs (yes, it does skip the time necessary for setup, but if you're building an existing covenant, you don't have that difficulty, either).
I can subtract the vis for the aegis or any other incidental expenses, though.
Scott
I'll say tentatively I can agree to one season's work being necessary to discover how to make use of at least some vis sources. Salutor, I gather you think that's too long?
Scott
I wouldn't want it to be the case for all vis sources (but I don't think that's being proposed, anyway). It seems reasonable for some of the more obscure ones. And I suppose it's not that unusual for magi to spend a season distilling vis, which is likely to have a far smaller long term benefit.
What happens if the season spent in study turns out not to be the season of the year the vis is produced?
I'd say that it works no matter what season it is, though there could be a lab total or die roll involved. Having to play guessing games with it is a little too much for an off-stage activity, for my taste.
Scott
Yes, I'd say that the season of work essentially creates the "lab text" for how to extract the vis from the source, it doesn't actually attempt to extract the vis, merely decipher the recipe.
I think it would be reasonable to let it extract the vis if the proper time happens to fall near the end of the season in question (or if there's no specific time that it has to be done).
Scott
Covenant Development
I'm going to make a lot of assumptions. Shout if people think they're unreasonable.
My understanding is that at the start of the covenant, we have:
- Enough dressed stone to create one more building.
- A convenient local forest.
During the first season, Gregorius successfully creates a group of average quality seasoned wood. I'm going to assume this is sufficient for the beaming on one house. This is possibly slightly generous (base individual is one cubic pace, so there are 10 cubic paces worth of wood).
According to City and Guild (pg 68), a carpenter can construct two townhouses a season. Due to shortages of materials, and lack of fully trained assistants (who I'm assuming are mostly the "teamsters"), I'm going to assume our craftsmen take a season per house. I'm also going to assume that houses are either constructed entirely out of wooden frames and daub (i.e. no stone), or stone with wooden beams for things like the roof (i.e. wood and stone). Mostly the latter.
I'll assume wood takes one year to season to building quality, so wood cut in Spring 1226 will be ready for use in Summer 1227. For the purpose of simplicity, I'll also assume that one season of woodcutting produces enough wood for two seasons of construction. Ditto stone produces enough in one season to build two houses. I have very little idea what actual production rates are, so this is wild guessing hopefully on the side of miserlyness.
We're also getting the quarries up and working. My understanding is that we'd decided to start at a new site, to avoid people carting stone past the magi's laboratories. There are also plans to try and meet up with the main quarry, and essentially drain off the flooding. They'll try to site the new quarry with that in mind. I'm assuming, again, that at least initial one season quarrying provides enough stone for one season's building.
One consequence of this is that the quarry is probably going to be outside the Aegis. This is less than ideal; on the other hand, it's not as though the forestry isn't inevitably going to be as well.
To try and minimise potential disasters, and to aid in locating veins of stone, Niketas will be brought in to dowse every now and again. Specifically, he's being brought in to dowse for water to check the miners aren't going to flood anything they weren't expecting to. Dowsing total is Dowsing 5 + Per 3 + Aura (2?) + die (probably simple in this case) = 8 + Aura + die, so he should be able to locate water (ease factor 9) reliably.
I'm assuming that the Carpenter has Profession: Woodcutter experience and the Autocrat can both build and quarry.
Autocrat (Mason)
Spring 1226: Autocrat begins quarrying operations. Initial work doesn't produce any useful stone (getting to quality rock).
Summer 1226: Quarrying production under way.
Autumn 1226: Directs team to construct forge for blacksmith.
Winter 1227: Quarrying production under way.
Spring 1227: Quarrying production under way.
Summer 1227: Quarrying production under way.
Autumn 1227: Directs team to construct carpenter's workshop.
Carpenter
Spring 1226: Carpenter directs initial tree felling. Wood mostly used up by Gregorius.
Summer 1226: Carpenter directs tree-felling operations.
Autumn 1226: Carpenter assists in building forge for blacksmith.
Winter 1227: Carpenter directs tree-felling operations.
Spring 1227: Carpenter directs tree-felling operations.
Summer 1227: Carpenter directs tree-felling operations.
Autumn 1227: First lot of seasoned timber ready. Assists in building carpenter's workshop.
At the end of the period, we have 3 lots of timber and stone ready to build things with - the project is just about to take off.
Plans for future buildings:
- A infirmary for Petrus. The storeroom he was using can then be changed into a guest lab, and the patients can get out of the cave with the negative living conditions modifier.
- A proper workshop for the mason, probably down near the quarry.
- A barracks
- A stables? Damianos is pushing for one, although there isn't much actual need yet.
- A sanctum for Gregorius.
- Assorted other sancta for visiting magi.
- A dedicated library.
Yes, there's some stone that comes from the rubble of the old covenant, and that hasn't been removed by the locals because Theodoric has been watching the place. And yes, there is a forest.
It sounds fine to me.
I'll need details of where and how you're doing this.
Scott
On the quarry siting:
It's going to depend a bit on the exact layout (and I also lack any actual knowledge OOC on how to site a quarry). However, general points:
- Being near the river is going to be desirable, both for transporting the stone once it's an income source, and possibly draining the caves. On the other hand, we don't want to risk the river flooding the quarry - hopefully this shouldn't be a problem, as I understand there's a fairly decent incline.
- If draining the caves, the quarry wants to be fairly close to the covenant site (this is obviously desirable anyway).
- If it looks like it's not going to be practical, at least without a considerable cost to something else, I'm fully prepared to drop the cave draining idea. It's not like we (necessarily) couldn't drain it through something that wasn't our quarry if we wanted to later anyway.
- Obviously, access to decent stone is vital.
On the how, I'm hoping that the mason will have some idea how to site the quarry. Niketas will also be roped in, although he's going to have difficulty working in daylight (he'll probably have to resort to twilight. Failing that, really overcast days). Niketas should hopefully be able to check that there's the right type of stone under the topsoil (by getting a sample piece of what they need and then dowsing for it), and possibly getting an idea of how close to the surface it is, although that's not explicitly within the capabilities of dowsing.
Once the mine is up and running, Niketas is going to be brought in to dowse for water every few days. This should be quite a short process, and not interfere with his normal seasonal activities.
Do you want me to make any rolls? If so, what and how many (and, if relevant, what characteristics should I assume for the mason)? Am I right in assuming they'll all be simple?
Just make a couple of Craft + Int stress rolls for the mason, with two botch dice each--I'm just looking here for either a botch or a particularly good result.
Scott
Die rolls are 9 and 5 (invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/3283090/). That's before the addition of Craft and Int, as I'm not sure what values to use for those as a specialist (I'd guess probably 6ish for Craft? As he's the autocrat, he's probably at least in his 30's, and specialists' scores tend to be determined by their age).
6 sounds reasonable. The work goes as planned, with nothing exciting happening.
Scott
Agreed.
I need to know what the lab total is before describing the vis acquisiton method. The higher the total, the easier the method is going to be (I had three ideas, and this is how I decided to choose between them).