Cumulative raising stat effect in the bond

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Hi,

Some spells are rituals because they are momentary and others are rituals because their level is superior to 50.
A "raise intelligence to max 5 by one point" has a base which make it fall in the second group. It can certainly be permanent with momentary duration, and since it's already ritual, most magi would do so. Why indeed have a higher level for something with a duration while you already need vis and can do a permanent creation.

But now I'm contemplating the idea of this maga whose arts are so high that it is realistically possible for her to put multiple CrCo/CrMe in her familiar bond because it doesn't warp and is fun to do. (And she is a waster of vis, so vis is an issue.)
Besides, with a group target, it would even affect the familiar (for the Me stats, because the familiar is an animal otherwise).

Let's start with the idea she would have first: improving perception.
She starts at 0, the familiar at 3.

Three effects would be needed for her to reach 3:

  • "Finding my keys", CrMe b35, touch, sun, constant, for a level 54.
  • "noticing the pickpocket", CrMe b40, touch, sun, constant, for a level 59.
  • "spotting the lost wallet", CrMe b45, touch, sun, constant, for a level 64.

Now I'm wondering about the order: would those effects need to be done in that order (one after the other), or can they be accomplished in the same season, and still produce their effect in a smart way? By doing them one after the other, the perception would go from 0>1>2>3 but takes more time.

In one season, the main issue is the level: double (54+59+64) which would require either a lot of aid, an expiry time (which would diminish the interest of the operation), or huge lab/arts/magic theory.
The multiple season path is more easy obviously but I was interested in the theoretical aspect of "do the bond effect activate smartly or not?" (see also further)

Now the perception is 3 and 3 so for the two last effects, group target (or "pair" if it's available)

  • "noticing the broken heart", CrMe b50, touch, sun, constant, group, for a level 79.
  • "eyes at the back", CrMe b55, touch, sun, constant, group, for a level 84.

In season time, with a LT of 94+5 since bond is Cr +26 from focus appliable to familiar + 26 if chthonic magic used (an option but maybe not the best idea), it would take 1+1+2 (or 1 with routine) + 2+3 season to invent (total 9 or 8).

In total, the vis cost 6+6+7+8+9 = 36. Compared to the cost in spells which I think would be higher (assuming a unique CrMe 60 ritual which would diminish the time of spell invention, 12x(5+2)= 84. In season time, with a LT of 94 + 26 if chthonic magic used (an option but maybe not the best idea since it's not required) it would take 2 or 1 season(s) to invent.

Being in the bond, the effect restart at sunset/sunrise if twilight or other "otherworld" event which breaks magic but not definitvely and is constant for general purpose in rp. It can be PeVi'ed, at the opposite of a ritual spell.
That might bring back the "order issue".
To avoid that issue, maybe include a linked trigger for +3 level in the respective effects: the 0>1 effect would be used as trigger for the 1>2, etc. up to the 4>5, for each characteristics interested. it would delay them re-activating per one round cumulatively, and raise the levels by 3, but all in all, it would avoid any contestation regarding their order.

I'm not even sure it would raise the level, because in fact, the 0>1 still needs "environmental trigger" but the others do not really: it's the 0>1 which start the chain. So we keep 2 uses, and replace "environmental trigger" with "linked trigger".

The difference would be in the worst case 7 seasons, dedicated to vis extraction/research. Considering vis extraction and redcap exchange at their fee, for the additional 48 vis, that would require 96 +1 extracted, so 14 per seasons which require a CrVi LT of 131 at least. The labtotal currently is 93 so it's not enough to cover the difference in time. And I didn't even count "waster of vis" in this calculation. In game, obviously the covenant may have Me vis available, or she could find such vis during play but I can't predict that so I'm doing this theoretically only.

From the perspective of the maga, the "familiar bond" path is more work at first sight, but less demanding in reality.

I personaly don't see why it wouldn't work, but I'm curious what you think about it.

Thank your for your time,
Greetings,

Exar.

2

I don't think Familiar Bonds have an exception from the rule that Ritual Spells can't be replicated by enchantments.

3

But there is no reason for that spell to be ritual. The guideline doesn't force it, and the duration is not year. The target is individual and the range is touch. Nothing of that is ritual only.

The momentary version spell is ritual because it creates real improvement using vis.

This spell doesn't, it's only an improvement for the duration (sun), like a recovery spell only gives you a bonus to recovery for the duration; the fact is that due to the familiar bond and environmental trigger+ 2 uses per day, the duration is constantly renewed. Like a recovery bonus would be constant if put in the familiar bond (which I find very useful and almost do it for every magus).

Hermetic empowerment is very clear about that: (while speaking about device, but enchanting the familiar's bond follow the same rules): "If as a Formulaic spell the level exceeds 50, and the spell would be a Ritual only because of this, then in fact no Ritual Magic is needed to place the effect in a device". That's clearly the case for a CrMe b55 touch sun spell raising a stat by 1 to max 5 for sun duration.

So high level + sun duration = normal effect for enchanting items (and familiar). Hence my post.

4

These two spells would be rituals due to level, I was under the impression that you may have overlooked that.

5

Enchantments level above level 50 do not incur ritual requisites, per the enchantment rules.

In general, enchanted devices may not mimic
the effects of Ritual spells. There is, however, a
single exception. Enchanted device effects may
have a level over 50, as long as there is no other
reason for the spell to be a ritual, such as Year
duration, Boundary target, or major effect.

One could argue the familiar bond is not a device and thus is inapplicable- however the below would indicate otherwise.

A maga may, at any time, invest powers in the
familiar bond. This is a laboratory activity, and the
rules are the same as those for investing a power in
an invested device, with four exceptions.

6

One thing worth noting is multiple non-ritual castings of improved characteristics won't increase your characteristics.

If a spell with a momentary effect, such as healing
a wound, creating a fire, or opening a pit, is cast with
a longer duration, it generally sustains that effect for
the duration, rather than having its effect multiple
times within the duration. Thus, a wound healed
with duration Sun stays healed for that length of
time, and reappears at the end. The target can still
take other wounds. A fire created with duration
Diameter burns for two minutes, and may inflict
damage every round over that period. A pit opened
for duration Moon with a Perdo Terram spell cannot
be filled in with earth for that period; any more
earth dumped in it is destroyed as well. Wood,
animal products, or water could fill it, though, as
they are not of the same Form as the spell. The
destroyed earth still does not reappear at the
expiration of the spell.

So CrMe or CrCo to directly improve your characteristics would only improve it once unless done ritually, unless your SG gives you specific exception.

7

I don't read that at all like you do. I rightly want that effect "for the duration" (duration being sun, + an environmental trigger + 2 uses per day). I don't want the effect to apply multiple time during the duration.

What I want is multiple effects, piling on each other. Each one being constant and at sun duration. Nothing in that quote refers to multiple healing spells but only "one healing spell with sun duration" which only heals for sun duration.
That's exactly what I want. For my analogy, it would be like if the familiar bond had 1 healing effect for each of the wound that character ever received. (And rightly before finishing enchanting the "new one," dispel with a ritual to hold one maybe, so that it's not used, but it's purely esthetical, it wouldn't change a thing and I wouldn't bother ; besides if an enemy learns about this, it will be more costly for him to dispell multiple effects of your bond than one (if dispelling an effect of the bond is even possible, I only remember a spell to break the bond).

So for example, after 3 adventures during each the characer received 1 heavy wound or multiples wound, that person would put a "heal all wounds" at sun +4l for constant, in the familiar bond.
Yes it's costly, yes it's totally imperfect because in case of twilight, before that it reapply correctly, he will suffer as hell (or maybe even die if the total wound level is so high he can't even reach the score required to eat or drink or whatever; maybe at -50 one cannot live? the rules don't specify such treshold for wound levels) and I don't find it a very good idea; I just provided the analogy.

In my case, he will just be back to his normal stat, waiting for the next sunrise/sunset trigger for the +5 to be reached again. For the healing case it may kill you, for the stat one, not so much.