Like enemies detecting/determining your Death Prophecy, or your players encounter an enemy who doesn't seem to die?
I am assuming characters with some sort of supernatural perception might realise that such a character is “Protected” in some way?
Also, how “poetic” should a Death Prophecy be? One of my player’s companion has Detach Prophecy “Die in Sleep’. In my head I say “when duty calls yet sleep prevails then doom descends".
Though I am wondering if “doom devours” might be better than “doom descends”
I can’t say how enemies detect it, but in play when my players had a “returning” enemy, and assumed he was immortal, they just put him in a metal box and buried it in the ocean.. His immortality was then useless.
My current character companion has “death prophecy: vampire” and i’m letting the SG decide what it means exactly. Personaly as a player when I face an enemy with wood weapon, I let others deal; I already avoid silver having a great malediction which makes silver hurt me (hence gloves if I need, or dealing in gold coin anyway since our magi produced tons of gold from which they crafted coins using magic when we started to need money). I also know I can be beheaded, but well, that’s normal.
In most cases, the death prophecy is, for me, more about being old without problem (+ unaging to avoid aging points) and deal with animals or dangers like fire, acid, or more generally those wizard’s hasard such as falling, lightning, etc.
Death prophecy is one of those “we tell a story together” kind of things. If a PC with death prophecy does something truly reckless, he dies. The same with an NPC. It is not an invulnerability virtue.
Say the death prophecy guy attacks a lord in his throne room surrounded by dozens of guards. The inevitable happens and the guards take him down. The noble then puts him to death. “Well, it seem the prophecy was wrong” is the reasonable response.
At the same point, in a rough combat, if by some chance prophecy guy gets a deadly wound, it is just incapacitating, and does not kill him if he fails the recovery roll. I consider death prophecy stops any death by unlucky die roll.
This question came about when I was reviewing an earlier scene in my campaign and was wondering if my hand-waving explanation actually stands up.
Basically a troll sorceress (“Mother Lhurgoyf”) came from the mythic Norse Ironwood to take back three special children in the care of the players’ Covenant, in order to strengthen/direct the Jotun’s side in the intended FimbulWinter and Ragnorak. First Mother Lhurgoyf made a poor attempt to negotiate buying the children, and when that was rejected decided to try a new bid with negative pricing by killing the defenders with “I will kill you first” at the Companion with the Death Prophecy.
Due to mystic effects, she discovered that she was in a “truth” field that was keyed to the inhabitants of Ironwood (tied to the reason why her faction wants the children), and her Premonitions showing:
a) she is now locked into killing the Companion before taking other action against the defenders, and
b) the target Companion has a Death Prophecy that she didn’t immediately satisfy.
The prophecy could very well be poetic or misleading. You can “die in your sleep” by poison or suffocation, or literally surprised while sleeping. The troll could also harm or capture without killing.
The protagonist of the Joan Stories has a Death Prophecy (“You will die at the hands of your own House”) and thinking about that over the course of 50,000 words has been very interesting.
Death Prophecy is not invulnerability. A character with Death Prophecy who suffers an otherwise mortal wound won’t die, but they’ll be Incapacitated and can be taken prisoner. The Virtue influences the story. Yes, the king was going to kill you, but now that he has defeated you he decides, yknow, death is too good for you and instead we’re going to blind you and put you in a cell for the rest of your life. (Of course you eventually escape, but that’s good. Far more interesting than simply dying.)
Do not let your Death Prophecy be affected by the small space on your character sheet where all your Virtues must be placed. What were the exact words of the prophecy? The player may have “Die in sleep” on their sheet but you, as the GM, need to know exactly what was said, so you can occasionally threaten the character. An incapacitated character, for example, is asleep, and can have their throat cut. This prophecy, in my view, mostly protects from instant death.
While it is one of those “we tell a story together” it is very much a virtue that exists to allow a character to act more recklessly than he’d usually be able to; because knowing the rough circumstances of their death lets them know they can take a risk at another task.
They can be incapacitated, knocked out of the fight, captured, all of that still stands, but at the end of the day they know they will live to fight another day.
The approach of “well it seems the prophecy was wrong” or deciding this particular blow sticks because random guard 3 was nicknamed “Boar” by his buddies without forewarning is just pulling the rug under the player and ignoring a Major Virtue, which is a significant investment for that character.
Foreshadow the dangers related to their Prophecy when you’re able; they won’t be able to avoid the prophecy, but they could engage it on their own timetable. Talk with your player, make sure you’re both on the same page how to approach this.
I like to treat it a bit like Guardian Angel but with an agenda of its own
SG should figure out who is “sponsoring” the prophecy. Should be in the higher ranks of creatures such as a Prince of hell or an Arch Angel or a God and the likes. Then those creatures make the Prophecy known. Take for granted that most creatures know the Prophecy and out of respect or fear, will honor it. At the same time, agents of said creature work fulfil the prophecy. Some agents might be willing to heal, defend the cursed one until his right time comes. Some might be enemies of said creature and oppose the death Prophecy. Its a really good way to introduce NPCs and create interesting stories.
Player should be made aware when the Prophecy is in play… mostly to stess them a bit.
I just want to echo Kodiak here, who makes some great points.
There is a certain “fair play” aspect to a Death Prophecy. The point of the virtue is to give the player license to be reckless. Every once in a while, show them that whatever situation they’re in just might qualify for their Death Prophecy, as a way of escalating tension and making the scene feel significant. It’s no good killing off the character and then hand waving an explanation for how this must somehow fulfill the prophesy. The fact that a Death Prophecy could be fulfilled in the current circumstance should be clearly telegraphed beforehand.
But, again, “can’t die” doesn’t mean “no consequences.” A character with a Death Prophecy can absolutely be defeated, imprisoned, tortured, maimed, stripped of property, subjected to the death of friends and loved ones, and so on. They just can’t die.
If they get really stupid (attacking the king with his army of guards) then they get struck down, incapacitated, and will see that in some way the means by which they are to be put to death will satisfy the prophecy.(there is a statue of a vampire in the courtyard, or they will be drown which involved falling asleep from deprivation) and now they will be desperate to escape.
You can also have a “You can’t die except in condition X, however, all events suggest that you absolutely should die in this scenario (charging alone an army of 200 pikemen, jumping from 400 feet up, etc.)” so a “miracle” prevents the character from dying in that moment, however, it gets them into a new, exciting situation.
Maybe they absolutely should have been felled by one of the pikemen even if it doesn’t fit the prophecy, but by sheer chance an evil mage casts a big mind control spell on everyone in the area (not knowing that the Prophecy Maniac is in the region) and now they’re all marching towards the evil mage’s demesne to be put to work in the mines.
Maybe the fall should kill them but they discover that there’s a regio entrance 30 ft down from the lip of the cliff, and now they’ve got a broken leg and they’re in a hostile slice of faerie with no idea what the rules are, or how to get out.
Seconding WilliamEx, that whoever the prophecy’s “Sponsor” should affect what kind of problems are created when you test the limits of narrative causality.
My “well, the prophecy is wrong”, is for a player who is playing in bad faith and would literally charge the 100 Pikeman expecting to win due to the prophecy. Thus my initial comment about we tell a story together.
It’s also a two way street. No Player would want their character to be against an enemy they cannot defeat, as the Death Prophecy is being played for the NPC as a get out of jail free card.
I have been looking at some legends of prophesied Death and there are examples like Oleg the Wise and Örvar-Oddr where the protagonists think they have defeated the prophecy and then get careless. How clearly telegraphed are those examples?
The Oleg one is the classic trying to avoid a prophecy makes it come true. To me the telegraphing of that is anyone who knows anything about prophecies knows the best way to make it come true, is aiming to prevent it.
An advisor saying “Why visit the stallion’s bones, you are tempting fate?” could be done for Oleg, and to me, that is generous, I would not consider it required.
Oleg was asking for it. His death was totally fair.
One thing I have found interesting with Joan is that, yes, your player knows he has a Death Prophecy and he knows the mechanics. But does the character know, or believe it true? It’s all well and good for a character to think “That old witch told me I can’t die except from X,” but when a horde of Roman mining ghosts are pulling you down to Hell, you might begin to wonder if that witch was full of crap. In Joan’s case, she even began to cast a spell to blow herself up in a fireball, only to he saved at the last minute and realize much later than if she had killed herself, she’d actually be satisfying the Death Prophecy (“You will die at the hands of your own House”).
In the charging 100 pikemen and similar cases I’d just have them be horribly injured but amazingly not dead. They can’t do anything, they are in terrible pain, healing will take a long while (it’s a death prophecy not a healing factor), and even when they are healed they will likely suffer long term effects.
Supernatural perception of the right type can certainly determine a death prophecy.
We are actually far less punitive than others on the forum seem to be. If you have a Death Prophecy, and the conditions do not materialize, you can be truly, truly reckless, and the SG won’t say “Damn! you should be dead, but you have that pesky Virtue! Well, you just end up blinded, castrated, and buried alive”. Instead, the SG will bend events just so slightly that you avoid death in a way that’s as “unsurprising” as possible. You charge 100 pikemen? They’ll skewer you and leave you for dead, while you are just incapacitated, it’s happened many times in history. You try to jump off the castle battlements to your death 100 feet below? As you jump, your foot just gets stuck in some crevice, you break your ankle and avoid the fall (and any chance to repeat your suicide attempt soon). You try again? You wake up and realize it was all just a dream.
In character, are you told “I can’t die except from X“, or “You are doomed to suffer X”?
I personally default to the latter, though I guess as @WilliamEx suggested, it depends on who gave the Death Prophecy.
At any rate, the one time I have so far addressed the player character’s Death Prophecy was to stall the first enemy (as the troll tries to work out how to implement “kill you first” that she had inadvertently and irreversibly committed herself to do) and give the troupe some foreshadowing of the unfolding major plot-line.
It was a 3 point Virtue after all, that won’t be used that way again.I am tempted to implement the idea that her sister witches in Ironwood who scryed her death may now be under the mistaken belief that many, if not all the Covenant’s defenders have that Death Prophecy.
The best of literature holds the best death prophecies:
BOATSWAIN.
I pray now, keep below.
ANTONIO.
Where is the master, boson?
BOATSWAIN.
Do you not hear him? You mar our labour: keep your cabins: you do
assist the storm.
GONZALO.
Nay, good, be patient.
BOATSWAIN.
When the sea is. Hence! What cares these roarers for the name of king?
To cabin! silence! Trouble us not.
GONZALO.
Good, yet remember whom thou hast aboard.
BOATSWAIN.
None that I more love than myself. You are a counsellor: if you can
command these elements to silence, and work the peace of the present,
we will not hand a rope more. Use your authority: if you cannot, give
thanks you have lived so long, and make yourself ready in your cabin
for the mischance of the hour, if it so hap.—Cheerly, good hearts!—Out
of our way, I say.
[Exit.]
GONZALO.
I have great comfort from this fellow. Methinks he hath no drowning
mark upon him. His complexion is perfect gallows. Stand fast, good
Fate, to his hanging! Make the rope of his destiny our cable, for our
own doth little advantage! If he be not born to be hang’d, our case is
miserable.
[Exeunt.]