Destroying Ryces Talisman

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

ok, I'm screwed.

I met Damhan-Allaidh.

Or to be more accurate, I got drunk, caught with my magic down, and captured by Damhan-Allaidh and his officers.

Worse still, I now have a hangover.

Damhan-Allaidh offered me two choices, betray the Order by letting him take all my memories of their strengths, weaknesses, defences, plans etc from my mind. Or swear allegiance to him, seal it with blood (giving him that always useful arcane connection), and serve him in the upcoming war. Or as he put it "until I die or he decides otherwise".

I chose not to betray the secrets of the Order, so swore allegiance to him, with the intention of wriggling my way out of it at first opportunity.

Which leads me to my problem.

The only way I can think of so far to get around this blood pact he forced me to agree to, is to go to my Bjornaer Cult Leader, and ask him as a matter of some urgency to initiate me in the Bjornaer virtue Secret Name (I think that's what it's called, I don't have my book here).

Secret Name changes my name, it gives me a new public name (which I'm not happy about, as I've actually grown attached to Ryce!), and a secret name, but importantly severs all arcane and sympathetic connections anyone has to me.

Just what I need in this tricky situation.

Except..

You can't do the Secret Name thing if you have a Talisman or Familiar, as they're too tied into your original name.

I don't have a familiar (dirty heartbeast wannabe's that they are), but I do have my lovingly crafted Talisman, built over the course of many years, and the pride of my magical arsenal.

And I need to destroy it.

Unless, (and here, finally after forcing you to read through many pages of waffling, is my question), is there any way to turn a shiny, well loved, painstakingly handcrafted Talisman, into a normal magic item? .. So that I can still use it, just not as a Talisman.

2

Looks like a perfect Major Ordeal to me. Your cult leader will be more than happy to boost your initiation score with this sacrifice (and maybe the slauying of a dragon or 2 while being trnsformed into a toad as well).

Or so I would think Gribble will think about this :stuck_out_tongue:

About your question, I think you can't. As you said, they are attached to your self. They become effectively part of you.

And BTW, I have to say that I am LOVING how much you dudes can screw up in a few gaming sessions :laughing: Sounds like a highly interesting saga! I think I still have to see one ofm our mages droping his ward because of alcohol. Happened to several grogs and companions for sure, but mages? :unamused:

Cheers,

Xavi

3

The Spider Strikes Again!

How many people have used Davnavelous as a Big Bad in a story or saga? I did once, reworking elements of the Fire and Ice sourcebook and the Iclandic Warspdf. It was the opening salvo for my upgraded and rebooted Ultima Thule saga.

You just gotta break it man. Bust it over your knee. It takes a Verditius inner mystery to sever one's link with a talisman. You have the lab notes, right?

And Secret name lets you keep your old name. It no longer forms a sympathetic connection to you though. Your new name is, well, secret.

However, anyone who learns this name get's old school penetration on you. That is, they don't have to subtract level from casting totals to get penetration, it is the full score.

Personally, I think you should have done the noble thing and fought my way out or die trying. :laughing:

4

Not that I can think of.

On the other hand, (unless you've lost or destroyed them) you should have Lab Texts for creating your Talisman, and for whatever powers you invested into your Talisman. So recreating your talisman after your re-naming, should be much easier than it was the first time around.

5

Why not serve him? That is an other option. Serve him, but not his minions. Quite a difference there. If he is not around, maybe you accidentally kill som eof Big D's guys?

I have used it twice. The first time he was relocated and renamed to fit an Old School, iberian saga with plenty of demons. Now we are using it in a more "classical" approach. Harry Potter is a great exemplification of what a fallen baddie can do when he returns. Voldemort is inspired in Big D, IMO. :stuck_out_tongue: Classy

Cheers,

Xavi

6

If you've been reading along with Lough Caillte, you'll know the answer to that question. Right now, it's minions, possibly a descendant of his tradition. In the future, who knows? :imp:

Steve

7

He is a classic archnemesis ,lurking in the shadows before striking again. It has a 70's feeling around itn that is priceless IMO :stuck_out_tongue:

"I will return!!" :laughing:

Last saga he appeared in he was defeated by Iñigo Montoya almost singledhandledly (the flaming sword of Big D Slaying' not mattering...). He hadn't killed his father, but was protecting the 6 fingered baddie. One of the best light-hearted combat-oriented soap opera sessions of the saga IIRC

Cheers,

Xavi

8

Maybe they got both of these things they wanted from you and they are just playing with you.
They got a good opportunity to read your thoughts while Ryce had no Parma. And getting an AC from a drunk and fixing it isn't a big thing either.

9

If I wasn't on my own then that might be an option, however both of Ryce's Sodalis in this matter, Santiago and Tenebrous, chose the second option. To give up the Orders secrets and save themselves.

Of course they may tell it differently. Santiago, I am sure, will claim that swearing pretend allegiance to D-A would have been betraying the Order, and that by giving him all the info he wanted on how to destroy the Order, that he's actually the one showing loyalty. Spaniards and their logic!

(Apologies to any Spaniards reading this post.. we're allowed to look down on Spanish mages when they're Santiago. But not in the real world. Racism is bad. Ok.) :slight_smile:

We witnessed D-A's mind reading spell in action, and the target is very aware that D-A is in his head and ploughing through his memories. So I know that hasn't happened to me. Yet.

And the 'drunken mage forgetting to raise his Parma' is a bit of a simplification. I'm stupid, but not quite that stupid :slight_smile:

We have an inn, within a building where (for complicated story reasons) magic just doesn't exist, your parma doesn't function, but that doesn't matter because nobody can cast on you. And it's a really nice inn, and the drinks are much nicer than any other tavern around. And the SG took control of one of my other characters and persuaded me that was the Only place she wanted to drink. And somehow D-A was expecting me and had laid a trap. So my magic being down wasn't exactly carelessness, more.. a consequence of drinking in a nice place :stuck_out_tongue:

10

HA! I KNEW IT! Prepare to be puierced like a brochette by my bullfighting sword!!!

LMAO!! :laughing: :laughing:

In case you haven't guessed it yet, I am from Barcelona. Guess where it is....

Santiago looks like an Iñigo Montoya kind of caricature character of a wannabe 17th century Spanish soap opera. I love it :slight_smile:

Nice place you have there. A kind of magicless lacunae. Interesting

Cheers,

Xavi

11

Hmmm… Ryce and his flawed self-righteous logic.

We were told to join him or be magically tortured and our minds raped for information. Essentially, we were told to choose between bravery or cowardice: Santiago and Tenebrous were brave; Ryce took the cowards way out. Ryce seems to naively think that joining Alaidh will make him exempt from revealing information that he knows to him; Santiago and Tenebrous were tortured, beaten and mentally violated while Ryce got all his wounds healed and a pat on the back from the bad guy…

When offered to join him or be tortured for information, Ryce betrayed the order, got something he’d wanted for a very long time as a gift from The Spider, and made a blood pact with him involving dark rituals. Santiago told him to go to hell and refused to kneel before him, and was then mentally raped after Alaidh drank his blood.

Santiago and Tenebrous have been robbed of their talismans and magical items, stripped, beaten half to death, mentally raped, and chained to the walls of a dungeon to await their execution rather than betray the order and join Alaidh.
Ryce is stood by Damhan-Alaidh’s side, all blood-oathed up and healed, awaiting his promised boon from his new master.

So tell me… Who betrayed the Order again?!

Santiago

12

See! Santiago logic! :stuck_out_tongue:

Ryce negotiated himself into (what to an outsider looks like) a good position without giving up the Orders military secrets, whereas his Sodalis chose to give up the secrets and leave themselves in no position to put right the damage they've done.

Remember that, Damhan-Alaidh has got nothing from Ryce yet, other than a bloodpact promising future allegience (which Ryce intends to sacrifice his own talisman to negate). From you he's received all the info he wanted to destroy the Order, and you're thrown back into the dungeon and of no use in the fight ahead unless somebody rescues you.

So which of us betrayed the order?

a) the one who pretended to go along with Damhan-Alaidh, and actually gave him nothing, or
b) the ones who gave up the Orders military secrets

(and yeah I know the secrets were forcibly taken from your mind, but Damhan-Alaidh explained beforehand that if you chose option 3 that that's what he'd do. So you chose that option knowing it'd mean betraying the Order.. ooh and also your own secrets re your history of making pacts with demons.. that could come back to haunt you..!

(Apologies to everyone reading this, Ryce & Santiagos bickering regularly carrys on outside of Thursday night play :p)

13

As a fan of all things Flambeau and Spanish, I gotta take Santiago's side. He would rather face death than willingly betray the Order. Yes, he was mind raped and knew this was possibly a result of his defiance. Still, it was against his will.

Santiago, mi amigo, nessicitas mantegesse fuerso. Cuando era es tiempo para su vengadore, then MUCHO FUEGO!

  • Santiago, amigo mio, tienes que ser fuerte. Cuando sea el momento de vengarte, entonces habrá MUCHO FUEGO!!

*as corrected by Xavi

(in my hack, bad grammer and poor vocabulary kitchen Spanish, I mean to say "Santiago, my friend, you need to stay strong. When it is time for your revenge, then MUCH FIRE!"

Vaya con Dios!

Xavi, feel free to correct my poor language :slight_smile: All I know is self taught Castellano picked up from having worked as a cook for many years. My vocabulary focuses mainly on culinary terms and bawdy slang.

14

I just love you guys :smiley:

You seem to have a really fun story going on, keep up the good work! :smiley:

15

That would be

Santiago, amigo mio, tienes que ser fuerte. Cuando sea el momento de vengarte, entonces habrá MUCHO FUEGO!!

:wink:

Cheers,

Xavi

16

Awesome :wink:
Thanx Xavi! I edited my prior post to include the correction so you can compare it side by side to my slop :smiley:

I mean, I knew when I was writing it I was getting it all wrong (example, I know Vengador means Avenger rather than Regenge, and now I have learned the proper noun). American Spanglish works like this: When someone with English as their native language who speaks Espanol as poorly as I do meets someone who speaks Spanish as a native but their Ingles is as bad as my Spanish, we can still make ourselves understood to each other. I am able to fill in the gaps for them and they for me.

Xavi, out of curiosity, what dialect of Spanish do you speak? Is there a standard national dialect nowadays? How different is European and American Spanish? Similar to the differences between types of English or more drastic?

But anyway, back on topic. Ryce, I gotta say, I am way siding with Santiago on this one. I say you are obligated to rescue him and Tenebrous. And even then, even if your crazy plan is successful, Santiago is well within his rights to just beat the living snot outta you. Be grateful if he lets you live.

Santiago, remember the true power of fire. It can detroy or enlighten. You come from a tenacious house of stalwart and heroic magi. You and yours represent the very finest the Order has to show for itself.

Remember the Spartans, your spiritual anscestors. Three times Leonidas was given the opportunity to surrender, given the option to work for Xerces, become warlord of all Greece and have Sparta rule over Athens. Refusal ment Xerces was going to raze Sparta to the ground and erase her memory from history. When Leonidas was slain, the Spartans gathered around the body of their king, refusing to surrender it. Again Xerces made his offer, a plea even. He had come to admire and idolize them so, he was woe to kill them even though they had slaughtered so many of his men (the Spartans killed over 30,000 Persians the first day of battle, a kill ratio of 100-to-1).

The refused, stood defiant as their king had, despite all of Xerces empty hollow threats. They died to the last with honor, and in the end, it was the Persians that were defeated.

That is exactly the situation you are in now. You knew you could not beat the Spider, you knew he had you dead to rights and that much pain and death was yours if you did not submit. Yet you refused to submit, you did not bend or yeild of your will. You shall die a heroes death. I will honor you, and name my next apprentice Santiago :slight_smile:

Then again, at this point, Ryce is your only hope for excape. Don't wanna jinx you by giving you a hero's eulogy before you actually die. Maybe the big bear is thinking on his feet after all. I dunno. But Ryce, I don't think you have time to go through an Initiation, you gotta get those guys outta there now! And, Big D's gonaa be able to scry on your initiation, he will know what you are up to and either strike you down or listen in to hear what you're secret name is.

And shame on you for being worried about your talisman! if that's all that's stopping you, like if your mystagogue knows a script where you can sacrifice your talisman and however else much you have to and then you will have Secret Name right away; toss that stuff on the fire without delay. Just do it. Atone for your cowardice :slight_smile: . Even then, you have to tell the mystagogue the details of everything, hope he doesn't kill you himself, and do it all under cover of an Aegis strong enough to keep Dav from scrying on you.

All in fun :smiley:
You guys got a good game going. Lovin' that you are sharing the details with us.

17

This is the plot i am currently running and my tiny, cold heart is warmed by everyones kind response.

To be honest, i hadn't considered that one of my players would be so craven as to capitulate to DA's demands. That one of them did (and of course it would be Ryce) proves the saying about players ALWAYS managing to find a way to bugger up your plot.

Santiago has at least earned the right to die with a morally clear conscience. He stared a ferociously powerful enemy in the face and all but spat at his offer. Since he is a flambeau hoplite in the Legion of Mithras, this pretty much the only response he could give and still live with himself.

Ryce on the other hand, weasily, sneaky, cunning Ryce, plays a dangerous game. Since taking the oath of service he has been given pretty much free run of DA's stronghold, is not accompanied, not watched and has not been called to do anything that he would find objectionable.

DA must surely be confident of the oath Ryce took.

It'll be fun to see how this plays out.

Unbeknowst to the senior magi who lie languishing in a dungeon (or waiting nervously in a plush suite of rooms), some of the junior magi and the turb are mounting a rescue operation. Will they succeed? Will they joni their masters in the dungeon? Will they die horribly to DA's curiously willful skeleton minions? Tune in next week to find out.

18

I can't wait to hear how this turns out! :smiley:

19

"craven"? Ouch! This is one time that Ryce actually chose to do the honourable thing. Self sacrifice to protect the Order.

The easy decision would have been to put himself first, give up the info DA wanted, screw the Order, and hope the Order forgives him later, or that they simply don't find out it was he who betrayed them. Instead he chose the path that protected the order, but left Ryce trapped with the big bad, will lose him his Talisman, and has him stuck in more trouble than he knows what to do with.

To the casual observer, it might seem that standing up to DA is the brave thing to do. It is very Flambeau, but ultimately it's the Order who pays the price whilst you personally are free to escape, and spin it so that you sound like the hero.

It's the consequences of the path you choose, not how brave you look in one particular moment that determine your bravery or craven'nes

Maybe Tenebrous & Santiago don't agree with Ryce's choice, but it wasn't a choice made through cowardice. It was the only brave option.

20

Oh, well, while I perfectly understand Ryce's choices, I find the argument about his braveness and all to be everything but credible :laughing: :wink: