Does a permanent spell in a talisman cause warping?

Many magi imbed one (or more) permanent spells in their talisman. Since spells in a talisman are range personal, do they cause warping?

I would say so. Constant effects cause warping.


Due to being a constant effect? Of course.

Not as clear as the other posters have implied. You could put a personal effect (constant) into the talisman, and it will affect the owner, as long as he's touching it. As I read the warping from constant mystical effect rules (P. 168 Ars Magica "An effect which is active for half the time counts as constant for these purposes"), if you don't "use" the constant effect too much (half a season), you won't get warping. Some would say that the talisman will get warping points, but since there are no rules for what happens to inanimate objects which get warped, it's probably not a big deal.

Second, if it's still an issue, consider a familiar. Between using the talisman for almost half the season and a power : concentration through the familiar bond for almost the other half, you should be feeling pretty fine.


It causes Warping for being a constant effect.

Any constant effect that is not an enchantment of the familiar bond (or the bond itself) causes Warping.

A magus who is under one magical effect half the time and another half the time is under a magical effect for more than half the time. Warp.

(It is, admittedly, ever so slightly unclear whether a magus affected by 50 trillion concurrent low-powered but constant magical effects for, say, the exact same quarter of the year, warps at all.

(I'll leave adjudication of that case to one's imagination, though I recommend that similar reasoning apply to his being under two constant magical effects, each for the same half of the year.)



I didn't formulate my question well.

I didn't mean an effect that affects the owner, but one that affects the talisman only (is that possible), like making it sturider, or perceiving the change (the spell that lies in wait to warn when shapeshifting occurs, from Gotf p96)


No Warping. There is no constant effect on the magus. In a similar way, a magus can enchant or cast spells on his clothing and not Warp, even though he always wears these clothes.



The magus would not warp, but the talisman is on a straight path to become one of Mickey's brooms in Fantasia


Lol... there will be a movie about that, don't it?

As I mentioned, tricky. You can't make a effect that only affects the Talisman. You can make an effect that is Range : Personal, which would (any other time you would be safe) also affect you when your are touching the Talisman. Really, that's the point of Talismans. It is a singular conduit, magically "part of you". It's touch is your touch, your magic resistance is it's magic resistance, and when touching, you share (and as far as I can tell, this is the only way to share) personal spells, when touching. So it comes down to how much time you spend touching (and thus under that "constant mystic effect") your Talisman. The rules state half a season, but many ST's will decide otherwise (witness Ovarwa). So check with your group. You may be better off with "Item maintains Concentration".

You certainly CAN make effects that only affect the talisman. An effect to turn the wood talisman to be as hard as iron would not affect the mage, for example.


It certainly would (ha ha) affect the mage if he were touching his Talisman and got (by his efforts or someone else) turned to wood. The player would be screaming for that soak bonus, and he'd be right. And not being effected by the constant magic effect doesn't mean you won't take warping. A ward against the Dodo will still warp people in a world where the Dodo has gone extinct......

The rules do say that inanimate objects get Warping Points ("Warping and Non-Humans" sidebar, ArM5 page 167), though as you say there are no rules for what happens to them because of this Warping. I just thought I'd also call attention to the awakened talisman, from page 130 of Realms of Power: Magic here. If you're looking for rules associated with what happens when nonliving things get really warped, I think this is a great place to start. :slight_smile:

Oh, yes, lots of fun to be had there. For the really proactive player, it might well be an source for a breakthrough in "awaking" magic items......

I understand about the personal range, but what about a valid target for the effect? Are we saying that the Talisman and the Mage together constitute one valid target for the effect? Is that just for personal effects in the Talisman or would that apply to any spell from anywhere that targeted the Talisman?

Page 98, Ars Magica, under Talisman Attunement. "First, your talisman is considered to be part of you as long as you touching it." Mostly good (extend your touch, gets your total magic resistance, share personal effects) but if your talisman is targeted, in my reading, so are you.

Then you could use R: Personal T: Part to affect only the talisman with that reading?


Probably. It's squirrelly enough that you should check with your troupe. Sharing Range : personal is one of the big points of a Talisman, so I for one don't want to see tricky little games played with it. On the other hand, I can see effects that you would need to do that with (I want my Talisman to extend up to my sight range, but if I do it, my buddy with the Heartbeast just might tear out my heart...), so judgment call. Definitely have it settled before it comes up in game......

This is wrong.

You get Warping because you are affected by a constant effect, not because you are within Range of one.

So, if a wooden Talisman contained a Personal Range "making wood impervious to rot" CrHe constant effect, then the magus would not get Warped, because he is not affected by the effect. Of course, if the magus was made of wood and the effect was designed to make the wooden person holding the Talisman impervious to rot, then he would be affected --- so he would get Warped. But a flesh and blood magus does not need to fear Warping from such an effect, because it does not affect him.

Compare this to a magus who lives in a laboratory that has a constant effect Room effect cast on it, which causes the laboratory walls to be warm: the Laboratory should be Warped, but the magus wouldn't be, because he is not a laboratory wall.

Also compare a magus who is targeted by a high magnitude Demon's Eternal Oblivion spell. The magus would not take Warping for being affected by a high magnitude effect --- because as he does not have an Infernal Might, he is unaffected by the spell. This is despite the fact that someone has erroneously targeted him with the spell.

This is because the ward effects the person Warded. A spell that destroyed only Dodos would not cause Warping if cast on a target that is not a Dodo, because it does not affect non-Dodo targets.

Hold on ... are you saying that a person living within a ward (Target: circle Duration: ring) is subject to warping? I understand if the ward has Target: Personal or Individual, but it seems a little extreme that a high level ward would warp those nearby. I am also concerned because wards are basically a wall through which something may not cross; which side would you have to be on to be subject to warping? And how close to be affected?