If a magus casts a seven-league stride spell, he'll do so at R:Per. Stuff he's carrying will be transported along (casting requisites may, or may not, be needed - something ArM5 leaves explicitly undefined, as per TME p.107).
Now, if a magic dinghy produces a seven-league-stride effect at R:Per (presumably ReHe) I'd assume that anything it's carrying would be transported along, assuming requisite issues are all met, if any. Right? This should include any passengers.
How about a pair of calfskin sandals? Would they transport their wearer along if producing a ReAn seven-league-stride at R:Per? I'm inclined to say no, because they are much smaller than the wearer; informally they are not really "carrying" the wearer. Such a pair of sandals would need to act at R:Touch on the wearer with a ReCo effect (however, the wearer would carry them along when moved).
Of course, there's a line somewhere, and it will feel strange that stuff immediately on one side or another of it will be treated differently, but that's always the case with edge cases. A wooden horse, in my view, would carry its rider along when seven-league-striding with R:Per. So would a tub. A bucket in which one can barely fit both feet would not, nor would armor or clothing no matter how bulky.
I think it comes down to the definition of the Target for the effect. Under what is the primary Form of the enchanted effect?
If it's Corpus, then the effect can only work a R:Per if the enchanted item can be worn by the user, because it is the user who is the center of the effect. A tub, bucket or horse would need R:Touch in order to affect the user.
If it's a different Form, like Herbam for a wooden horse, and the user is simply carried along with the item with a R:Per enchanted effect, then a) the effect needs a Corpus requisite, and b) the item needs to be significantly larger that what is being carried along so the the person is either contained by it (the tub) or "worn" by it (the horse).
It all comes down to the interaction between Range and Target.
So, if I am wearing a necklace instilled with a ReCo(+requisites) Seven-league-stride R:Per effect, that necklace can transport me (and get "pulled" along)? Wouldn't it need R:Touch?
My bad, I was thinking that you were saying that. But it is specifically contradicted by the second point under Using Enchanted Devices (ARM5 p.100). ANY device that affects the user must have R:Touch at least. Otherwise it only affects the item itself.
EDIT: Conversely, that means that even the tub would need R:Touch if the enchanted effect is to affect its content.
No, my question was in a nutshell whether an enchanted device that's big enough to be considered "carrying or wearing" the user, will drag him along when it moves itself with a R:Per instantaneous transportation effect - just like a magus casting the seven-league stride drags along his clothes (assuming all requisites are met). Note that a magical dinghy flying with a ReHe R:Per effect will drag the passenger-user along as a side effect.
Hmm. While it's meant to be optional stuff, TME p.107 suggests that living creatures (save perhaps a familiar and the like) carried by the primary traveler won't be transported along. So, I guess the dinghy would drag along cargo, but not passengers, which feels weird. It also feels weird that when you teleport you automatically leave all parasites such as lice behind. I mean, nice, but weird. Hmm.
Well, instant transportation is treated very differently than flying or otherphysical movement.
So IMHO, even a magical container with a R:Per instant transportation enchantment would only tranport itself and not its content, to reflect the point under Enchanted Devices mentioned in my last post. And even at R:Touch, the enchantment would need the appropriate Form requisite(s) to bring along the content (just as for the items worn by the user of a non-container enchanted item).
Whereas a physical movement enchantment (flying or otherwise) would bring along its content, with no requisite, although the movement speed might be impacted if the content is proportionally heavy for that item.
For Instant Transportation you also have differences based on if it is actually teleportation or just "movement so fast it seems instant". For the latter it would need an appropriate path to the destination (so no getting something larger than all doors and windows into a room) but generally would not need requisites.
The super fast movement form of Instant Transportation is easier on requisites, but can't get to places that it would not normally be able to get to.
Increased Rigidity of Magic
MuVi 20
R: Eye, D: Mom, T: Individual
This effect changes spell up to level 40 so that it is very rigid barring casting requisites from being added. ReCo Teleportation effects will only teleport the person, leaving behind their belongings. Perdo Terram effects such as OoTMB can only affect Terram. Caster needs to have a penetration total higher then the penetration total of the spell he is trying to affect and needs to fast cast the effect which forces a -10 penalty to the total. Interestingly, the effect also affects effects that should have casting requisites but do not thanks to wide spread spell optimizations such as Seven League Stride where it does leave the Target naked at destination except for his Talisman which is part of his individual. As usual, Parma Magica protects but only for items within it (worn).
(Superficially change a spell of less than or equal to twice the (level + 1 magnitude) of the Vim spell. This may not change the primary effect of the spell, or its power, +1 Eye)
No. R: Personal means the caster and what the caster is wearing. Not what happens to be wearing the caster (shoes) nor carrying (the float, but also larger objects carried by a living caster). You wear your ring. Your ring does not wear you.
Magic items are themselves casters of their own effects. They do not get R: Touch for free.
Remember, that's one of the major advantages of Talismans.
No. Use T: Room (or possibly T: Structure, depending of the exact phrasing of Room, noble's parma).
Sure, and that's what I said. You are too big to be "carried" by your ring.
But it might be argued that, just as you carry your backpack (and thus it accompanies you, when you travel with a R:Per spell), a wooden horse would be carrying you (and thus you accompany it, when it travels with a R:Per spell).
Sure, No one was talking about a magic item targeting the user. What was being discussed was: when a magic item travels on its own via a R:Per effect instilled in it, and is big enough that a passenger is just a little speck on it, is said passenger "dragged along" or is he left behind in the dust?
The issue here is apparently (according to TME) just one of living beings. These never follow the main traveller - with the exception of familiars. A boat teleporting with a R:Per effect will leave all living passengers behind, but not unliving cargo - just like a magus teleporting with a R:Per effect will leave all living passengers (lice, ticks, etc.) behind, but not his clothes, shoes etc. Strange, but perhaps convenient.
Wear is the key thing here. You wear a backpack, you do not carry it. I appreciate this means a sack does not teleport with the magi under this interpretation. I'm content with that.
A boat, a horse, etc, they do not wear, they carry.
Does the distinction between 'wear' or 'carry' matter to the contents of a teleporting mage's belt pouch? The pouch is clearly being 'worn', so it goes along. Same with a mage's backpack, I suppose. But the contents of a backpack (and the belt pouch) are being carried, not worn, right? If they go with a teleporting mage, then it seems like 'carried' stuff is being included.
Damn you.
I was hoping to work with something consistent, instead of the magic knows if a player is being a weasel. I think there's an option where going by what feels right is fine.
I think most of us (I appreciate maybe I'm guessing the general sentiment incorrectly) considering the magi teleporting himself and stuff in a backpack, belt pouch, water flask, etc seems fine. Teleporting everything in a boat? Stop being cheap. Add the extra magnitude for touch.
Player controlling Magi Shenanigus: You said I can teleport stuff I wear. With this giant treasure chest, I use a spell to make it less heavy, Muto Terram spont, add a couple of straps, Creo Herbem spont. It's a backpack.
SG: Just no. The spell knows it's a dodgy rules workaround and the giant treasure chest backpack fails.
Or a troupe may love the magic manipulation shenanigans in my example, and anything worn works. For what it's worth, with enough weight reduction, you could teleport ridiculously large things. "That's a nice windmill. We need some new windmills blades. Lighten them and strap them to my back. Make sure the landing site is clear."
I think this is one where the game designers have left it deliberately open for the interpretation of the troupe and SG.
There is a reason why a long paragraph is added in TME about instant transportation. @Fishy summarised it nicely.
There is one point where I am undecided - and it may be left to each troupe to decide, but I would take this opportunity to have the feel of the community:
What about warping ?
When a vessel is moving fast, even under a high level effect, I understand that the passengers are carried along: the magic is propelling the vessel, the vessel might become twisted by magic overtime, but passengers are really collateral and are not feeling the magic. MR or not, they are equally affected.
When the same vessel is teleported (with all the proper requisits), its passengers are coming along. But... 1) if they have MR, they should be able to resist if they don't want, no ?, and 2) here, they can feel the magic teleporting their being somewhere else, so they should be warped if the effect is high enough, no ?
I wouldn't see that as particularly cheap.
In general, the idea is that if you teleport or move X, small stuff (relative to X) attached to it goes along "for free". But unless you are playing with Forms, that generally means you are moving something much bigger (X) than the stuff attached to it.
For the same reason, I would not allow a magus to move with a gigantic item strapped to his back "for free". But if he's powerful enough to shrink a castle to the size of a mouse and holds it in his hand (without wearing it) then sure, I'd say he can carry along the castle "for free".
The classic uninteded consequences.
"So the contents don't teleport, living creatures don't teleport, etc. Awesome." After unloading the boat, my magi teleports the boat voice range away. Barnacles, rats, etc, all gone.
1- Has everything to be considered a powerful effect and as such should be a ritual, especially the to arcane connection one. It changes the game totally once players reach that level and even the lower level ones make for best defense in all scenarios.
2- Lice, ticks, etc. in mythic medieval paradigm are probably infernal and already warded off by parma. If not, they probably find a way to be "part of" meaning you teleport your grog, he gets to keep his infestation.
3- We don't talk enough about the finess roll and how there is a 1% chance at every teleport that something goes really wrong. Not sure magi would teleport at all if it was always rolled.
It might be called the Law of Contagion, or maybe the greater supercedes the lesser?
The backpack is "worn", therefore all components of the backpack are metaphysically "worn" as well.
