Enchanted parma

If a Rusticani magus were to imbue an item with parma magica (arguably not possible since Parma Magica is an arcane rather than supernatural ability, but assuming a generous SG) would it only be usable by Gifted individuals or would this work like sharing the parma and be able to affect non-Gifted individuals, perhaps at a lower level?

Related concept for discussion- a magical animal which has inherent parma magica that is shares with a mundane companion- what would be the order's reaction?

The reaction would probably be to kill the animal in question, and making sure it was the only one of its kind.
The policy towards anyone outside the Order learning the Parma Magica is "Join or Die!", and an animal is unlikely to be deemed worthy to join.

Assuming the SG allows the Rusticani to imbue Parma: anyone can activate an item with an imbued supernatural ability, so I don't see a reason for the Gift to be required. But how strong would the MR be is something to be considered, since Parma doesn't require a roll but the ability level has an impact on it's strength. Maybe the level is the MR you would gain?

What "inherent Parma" is? A magical animal has MR. Parma is an ability that requires the Gift to learn. Are you considering a gifted animal?

If the ability is simply to share it's MR with another (or even to confer MR temporarily to another), the Order would probably do nothing. At most someone would seek it for study purposes or as a familiar. If it indeed has the arcane ability Parma Magica or something similar that it could teach to others, then the animal represents a risk to the Order. The problem with Parma is not that it can be shared, but that it can be taught to the enemies of the Order.

In that sense, the same concerns would apply to a Rusticani that can invest Parma in an item. See the discussion about Parmulae in HoH:TL, most of that is equally applicable here.


I will say that the books normally talk about the monopoly on Magic Resistance, not on Parma Magica, Parma Magica is the easiest way to obtain Magic Resistance as a human, but if, for example, a traditions starts developting a medium to gain Magic Resistance, even if that medium is "a creature gives it to us", then the Order will see that as a threat.

1 Like

I think the easiest way would actually be using relics, not Parma, and you don't see magi going around regulating the use of those. There is the matter of not messing with the Divine, of course, but also, relic abuse is hardly something that poses trouble for the Order.

This supposed magic animal that can grant MR to others is only really dangerous if it can do so unrestrained or if it can disseminate knowledge of this such that a large number of people can have MR. If no abuse is possible, the Order has little to gain intervening.

I don't see why a rustic magi enchantment for Parma Magica would require the gift to use, if the storyguide allows it at all (as you say, by RAW, rusticani can't enchant an arcane ability). And if I allowed that, it would probably be on the argument that non-lore arcane abilities are similar in concept to supernatural ones, just more integrated with magic theory. If I allowed that argument, I don't think I'd require it to give it a lower magic resistance, as if the magi were sharing parma to protect several people. That being said... depending on the person you're giving Parma to, and whether it's a one-shot or recurring enchantment, if caught, I think the Order might very well react by marching the rusticani.

It depends. A magical animal that has learned Parma Magica is most likely a Bjornaer great beast. But even the great beast would be unable to use it, since it doesn't have the gift anymore. Still, I suppose there's the possibility of a familiar have the Gifted virtue technically, and that familiar could learn Parma Magica from exposure to his magi. I think the familiar's action, if understood at all that he's the source of the parma, would likely be considered the magi, and the order might not worry too much about so long as he's a familiar. If the familiar bond was broken, on the other hand... The order might do something about it.

It seems to me that the primary difference between magic resistance and parma is that parma blocks the social effects of the Gift, and while preventing other magical traditions from having this provides a key advantage, allowing mundanes to have that ability would seem to benefit the order.

How would protecting mundanes through magic resistance benefit the Order? (besides redcaps and covenfolks, that is)

If you could make a noble immune to your gift you can treat with them easier if you want to do that and not make them talk to a lowborn lackey but the “powerful mage” themself. Granted, some covenants have nobles “on the payroll” for appearances sake but that is definitely not common among the example covenants across the books.

1 Like

Giving a mundane (especially a mundane of your choosing) Magic resistance 1 in exchange for them not being affected by the Gift would be a huge boon.


100% agree.
Any established magi can pick and choose their spell and easily get past magic resistance 1. If anything, stopping young hot headed mages casting their most powerful spells at significant mundanes is good for the order.

I'd looked into this before, trying to give Redcaps Parma Magica within RAW. It's not exactly what you're doing here, but potentially could give insights. It turns out there is a canonical way for Mechanicals/Rusticani to give a person a score in Parma Magica roughly this way. The combination of Font of Knowledge and Craft Magic will work. The specific effect from Font of Knowledge being generated by the item is giving the target a score of 1 in Parma Magica. But then we turn to Lands of the Nile, where it tells us that having a score in Parma Magica without having the Gift means you cannot activate it. So now we've given a useless (unless they have the Gift) score in Parma Magica to someone within RAW.

1 Like

I haven't fully read the story arc in Antagonist. Is Font of Knowledge intended to allow the person to use any skill, including any published supernatural virtues?

The Rusticani rules are rather badly written.

[...] also allows a character with a Supernatural Ability or Virtuye that only affects himself to craft items that other characters can use for the same effect, though only if the activity requires the crafted item to perform.

What item would be required for the parma? This seems only to apply for skinchanger and maybe dowsning. Nowhere does it say if the beneficiary would get the caster's score or the default 1 from the virtue.

However, allowing the rusticani to bestow parma magica in this way would be a massive change to the world. It would allow the PCs, not only when the rusticanus is present, but always, to negate the effect of the Gift. To me it would spoil an important aspect of the game.

The creature idea is different. Is the creature Gifted and has learnt parma? Or does it have a power equivalent with parma?

I agree with those who said that a creature who knows parma would be hunted down on the join or die principle. I have no idea what the tribunal would say to the join part, but I do not think there is anything in the Oath restricting it to human beings.

A power equivalent with parma should be possible, but no way would I allow it for a PC design. The Gift is harsh, and while I would be happy for PCs to spend there life circumventing the effects, the success should also be the victory condition after which the saga ends.

'm thinking something like a gently Gifted cat which has cunning not intelligence and an instinctual ability with parma magica that it shares with people it has formed a close bond with.

1 Like

Yeah, I could introduce something like that as an NPC. Thank you, for the idea.

As a PC, and that includes such things as player designed animal companion for the story flaw, I would say it was power-gaming, and I am very pleased that there is no such power in canon.

If we are talking Parma-Parma, I find that as weird as a cat with an instinctual ability with Artes Liberales or with Craft: Pottery. These aren’t things anyone "instinctively knows". But I can see a magus teaching Parma to a gifted cat (how would they know?). If I’m not mistaken Parma cannot simply be learned by exposure since there is a non-obvious mental trick that must be clearly communicated, but I might allow it depending on the circumstances.

If we are talking Parma-like (something akin to Parma, but not), that would be exotic, but I find it more plausible than a cat fortuitously recreating the greatest magical achievement from the last 400 years.

Unless we are talking about Bonisagus’ cat.

1 Like

Not just a cat, a magical, Gifted cat.

When you write «instinctual ability» I read something resembling Parma Magica, bot not derived from Bonisagus' invention.

Or could it be a faerie pretence?

1 Like

I'm not sure I'd allow a magical creature to have the Gift if it merely has cunning, though.