Is there any particular reason not to set up an apprentice with a Talisman and a familiar?
Obviously it would be a low might animal, but in our campaign we just purchased several might 5 crows,
And I'm considering letting my Apprentice bind one, if they turn out to be compatible.
They are stuck with a poor quality talisman/familiar and neither of these can be upgraded later, barring special circumstances. Given that, I think it might be frowned on as limiting your apprentice's long-term power in exchange for a short-term gain. That isn't an absolute block, though.
For the familiar you would most likely be fine.
A Might 5 crow (or other close power animal) would be fairly common as a familiar. It would be a high powered Grog (same PC plays Magi and Familiar) or low powered Companion (different PCs play Magi and Familiar). 5~10 would be the range of most familiars found in the Order, with only the very top being 20+ (highest published is a 30).
Now for a talisman it would be hot garbage since they will lack the abilities to build a good compound talisman.
I feel, in theme, that a Might 5 crow or Might 10 cat or bat, would be a relatively common familiar in the thematic elements, as that feels properly Mythic Europe.
That said, I kind of expect every player character to go for a might 20+ creature with Int 2+ that perfectly matches their form/technique specialty. Because, why would you not? You can't just try again later. A side effect of the fact binding powerful familiars is just better than simpler, smaller familiars.
By comparison, if you have the Vis to spend a bit, you can destroy your talisman, and a few of mystery cults actually use that as an Initiation method.
I fully support having the apprentice get those early.
The Familiar can even be a mundane animal. Cats have their own society and a new "awakened/bond" member will be welcomed into the ranks. See RoP:M p.70 The Magical Lineages of Cats
On the other spectrum, you could inherit a legacy familiar and have a Merinita Magi establish the temporary Bond. You could even explore non-hermetic bonds to add some exotic flavors.
As for the Talisman, starting early is harder but not impossible. The Magi can always spend a season and increase the vis capacity at a later time. Maybe the master spent a season helping the young magi to invest his 1st effect into the Talisman.
I can see apprentices having these especially when their master is seeking to form a reputation of some sort.
W
Ooh I like the reputation idea!
All apprentices of so and so have metal wands consisting of brass bronze and iron braided together, for example?
In Hermetic culture, apprentice = child, familiar = spouse. You are expected to seek out a familiar on your own once you are mature enough for it, particularly because both you and your familiar must feel a deep sense of respect and admiration for each other.
Setting up your apprentice with a familiar would be seen a bit as marrying off your 10-year old child to ... someone. There may be "political" reasons to do it (e.g. to forge a mystical pact between a Covenant and, say, a pack of magical wolves who rule the nearby area), but in general, it would be frowned upon. In fact, even letting a willing apprentice bind a cute kitten as a lifelong familiar would be considered poor parenting.
As for talismans, as someone observed, without an adequate Magic Theory score you'd be seriously limited in terms of "compounding" S&Ms, but I think it's less of an issue than familiars. I believe it actually makes a lot of sense, mechanically, for a junior magus to have a "junior talisman" and eventually switch to a "senior one" once he has a few decades under his belt.
In any case, from a master's point of view, any season an apprentice spends enchanting a talisman or binding a familiar is a season of help lost ... and probably one of the valuable, late seasons!
Interesting point about familiar=spouse, I suspect it's more complicated than that, but I also see that at least some Magi would see it that way, and therefore have opinions.
My thought on having an early familiar is that they can enchant more stuff into the Familiar Bond, and that somewhat makes up for having a low might familiar.
I can see some Mgai going the route of having their apprentice bind a Familiar, so they can get another assistant in the lab. Sure, it would give the apprentice a useful Familiar with some ranks in MT by the time he becomes a Magus, but it would also give the Parens an extra assistant.
One big reason for not having your apprentice bind a familiar or make a talisman is that both activities cost vis. Vis that the apprentice won't have.
Letting the apprentice spend some time on projects of their own, instead of having them work as a labslave, is one thing. Letting the apprentice spend the master's precious vis on their own projects is another.
I think it depends on the circumstances. Yes, for a 7 yr old apprentice to bind a non-magical kitten would be unusual and likely frowned upon. But a magi helping an apprentice bind a familiar he wants but can't bind on his own (or to get stronger cords) as a pre-gauntlet gift is a very different scenario. Sometimes that magical cat that sticks arround will be bound as a familiar eventually. And I don't see that giving some pre-gauntlet autonomy is something that should be frowned on at large (outside House Tytalus).
Ugh. Varies by magi. Yes, if the familiar can shapechange into a human of the opposite sex, the strong bond can be akin to that. But I also think magi who value mariage or are religious are likely to oppose that concept as a general rule, even as they are likely to recognise the bond can be similarly intense.
True, vis is valuable, but that does depend on the tribunal etc.
I'm Hibernia vis is relatively plentiful, so it makes more sense there than elsewhere.
Most such bonds won't be high in Lab Total, so won't cost much Vis either
I think this is the biggest reason this would be unusual. Either making a useful talisman or binding a familiar would take at least one season of assistance away from the parens.
With the required magic theory for handling vis, the parens will not get much if any benefit from the lost season.
From a more mechanical point of view, you need some special virtue to start the game with one or more enchanted devices. (Virtues that can provide that include: Redcap, Minor Enchantments, Masterpiece, Magic Items)
That should be true for starting with a familiar or talisman as well.
Sure, but this discussion is specifically for apprentices that are being developed in play.
Making a useful talisman takes at least three seasons.
One season to prepare it for enchantment.
One season to attune it as a talisman.
One or more seasons to instill effects.
Another excellent point!
Two seasons for a technical talisman, three for an even minimally useful one.
With that kind of time investment, the only reasons I can think of to set your Apprentice up with a talisman is to destroy it in a mystery initiation, to show off, or for some devious purpose.
(For example, you might have a fixed Arcane connection to their talisman)
Actually, even after the second season the talisman is useful. It has a first attunement bonus, so can boost casting totals/penetration with that attunement. It can also extend Touch range.
That can be quite useful.
True. Many Master get their apprentice to fix an arcane connection to themselves and keeps it in case something happens to them. Might be time better spent to have that done into the talisman... but then it also means the master keeps it until Gauntlet.
W