Happy to. Constantine is always open to that and would have likely visited every covenant in the tribunal many times as part of his duties over the years. Arts wise he's interested in Re Vi Me In Mu and spell design if that makes a hook in easier. That or any politics or significant local events.
You said this was an architectural specialist- would they have done any research on standing stones or the like?
With Constantin, talking politics is certainly a good option, as that will lay the groundwork for how this character interacts with the covenant while avoiding any political fallout from House Tremere.
With standing stones, absolutely! Many of the Hermetic Architecture spells work on pillars or create things like the Hermes Portal by use of standing structures. Investigating things like Stonehenge or similar mounds, plinths, and cairns would definitely be within the character's specialty, though more from the magical theory side than from the faerie lore/history side.
We likely did business at one time or another. If you need charged items or smaller lesser enchanted items, Haestus is your man!
I imagine that the cabal will be fairly tight, with new members discussed as they are recruited. So you could easily have been scouted by anyone in the group as a likely candidate and then sounded out after that.
I think the first thing we need to figure out is where the idea first came from?
The idea first came from Magnus ex Bonisagus and his twin brother Duncan.
Duncan is a failed apprentice who ended up getting interested in Atlantis, and eventually determined to figure out where it sank in the ocean. Over the years he became the greatest living expert on Atlantis lore, gathering information from far and wide. It's known that he's interested in Atlantis. What's not generally known (save to a select few) is that he discovered the resting place of the lost island. Once he discovered that, he and his brother began recruiting a small group of like-minded magi (and companions) who shared their dream to bring Atlantis back again.
Meliai could have been involved since before you actually located Atlantis, assuming 1) you are from Loch Leglean tribunal and 2) your search involved extensive travel then it is entirely possible that Meliai was a connection made during your search, as her forest region network would certainly prove useful for traveling around in search of the lost city.
I assume that Magnus and Duncan knew several of the magi prior to locating Atlantis. In fact, they could easily have known anyone also interested in Atlantis since as early as cycle one. They also are from Loch Legean, so they could easily know Meliai or anyone else from that tribunal.
I figure that Duncan did a lot of traveling looking for tales of Atlantis, effectively researching tractatus on Area Lore: Atlantis. (Not very many, so he'd have to go far afield for whatever he could get.) So he could easily have made use of Meliai's regio network for that.
Question Time:
- How are we doing ritual spells with regards to stress/botch dice? Will it always be stress with one botch per pawn of vim? Assuming it is, does one level of mastery eliminate the botch dice in relaxed conditions?
2)Are we using the suggestion in Transforming Mythic Europe for evaluating effects to improve living conditions? Its on page 40.
- Who designs familiars? Do we?
I had assumed the standard rule of stress with one botch per pawn of vim.
One level of mastery will eliminate one botch die, which may bring the total down to 0 if there was only one botch die remaining.
Unless there's an overwhelming desire on the players to loosen this rule, that's how I was going to go.
I'm good with those rules. Just remember Warping will occur...
Players can.
Cool on the topic of warping are you going to have the linked trigger effects for items cause warping? Say a spell to read surface thoughts in your Talisman so you can use mental commands?
I hadn't thought about that. What's the general consensus in the community on that one?
I would assume items are not on all the time- at minimum you would take them off to sleep, and a lot of them you would only take with you on adventures, which would typically be less than 1 season per year. If you have an item you would be carrying around for more than 1/2 of the year, (which assuming 16 hours a day being awake means 3/2 of the yea while awake) then perhaps reading the weilder's mind isn't the best option. Even if you are carrying it that often the mind reading spell itself can have an on and off condition to prevent warping.
Like I mentioned earlier, I would like Procella to own a fleet of ships. I'd like the fleet to start trading during cycle 3 to accumulate funds for her future plans. I've devised a few items to speed the fleet along, protect from the weather and pirates, desalinate water, etc. (see Procella's thread)
I'm now trying to figure out how much money they would make. According to Through the Aegis, p. 25, a ship of around 125 tonnes and superior construction costs 104 MP (52 for standard) and has a crew of 13 people. This means Procella can affort 3 superior or 6 standard ships in Cycle 3, with 30 BP.
Through the Aegis doesn't give any reasonable numbers as to how much profit such an enterprise would make per ship just from trading. Page 36 gives a fleet of 6 such ships as producing 40 MP a year, but the costs in the calculations far exceed the income even if you exclude expenses that Procella wouldn't have (such as labs on board the ships). I can't find anything in City & Guild, either. What do you think? I'm thinking 5-10 Mythic Pounds per year per ship seems ballpark correct, but I'm not sure.
So this is something I hadn't considered. I thought you'd wanted one ship, not a fleet. The matter is complicated by the fact that I ought to make there be a percentage chance every year that you just lose a ship for no apparent reason (storm, pirates, etc.) I'm also considering that I'm trying to abstract incomes and such through the generation process. I don't know if the other players would consider it unfair of Procella got to start gaming in Cycle 3 while they had to wait for Cycle 7.
What are your plans that require so much money?
Part of the problem is that you are looking for something that doesn't exist in this point in history. Income at this point in time has more to do with social status than investment- trading companies like what you describe don't really occur until the 1400's. At this point in time individual ventures are financed instead and income is far from certain. On top of which economics in Ars Magica are largely just unworkable if you try to break them down. The closest thing you have is under the description of a typical source of income, or 100 pounds per year, but this would involve a lot more than simply owning the ships, and your reference in through the Aegeis which gives 40 lbs income for a half dozen ships. Historically an annual return between 8% and 24% would be typical on investing in ventures, depending on so many factors it makes my head spin, and also with a relatively significant risk (at least by todays standards) of simply losing the investment to storms, pirates, etc. so maybe 6% plus a stress die, with a botch indicating a loss of the investment...though the rules In commodity speculation imply a 10% return, though that is measured in labor points...
There's a real easy way to abstract this. Per the corebook, 5 BP gives one vis income per year, which can be abstracted to 10 MP per year. Even if we assume an automatic loss of efficiency in converting vis to MP (lets say 50% just to start a conversation), you could assume 5 BP gives an income of 5 MP per year.
Or you could just buy the vis income and sell vis each time you go to tribunal, no automatic business needed.
If this is too high, let's just adjust the loss of efficiency until we have a number everyone agrees on.
Trogdor:
At this point, Procella would simply be hoping to found a new way of life outside the current one, and would want to amass a hoard to that purpose without crashing markets or causing other problems. Later, of course, it would be directed towards the Atlantis project in particular. But the major point is that it would be silly for her to suddenly conjure up a fleet of big ships - it seemed more realistic to me that she built the fleet up gradually, and the first ships have to be doing something all the while. A single ship doesn't do much if you're trying to do something big, which she hopes to do.
Do people have opinions on this? It's just mundane money and ships we're talking about, so no great benefit to my character as such, just a ready income source for the new covenant.
I made some items to counter this in a fairly unnoticeable way (reduce the intensity of storms, slow down pirates, etc.), but of course they are not foolproof. During Cycle 4, I'll make the fleet able to warn Procella and she will be able to teleport to it if needed. I think at this point the possibility of losing a ship will be close to nil. Anyway, I would prefer to abstract this (see below).
Silveroak:
I'm not sure which part you mean doesn't exist - merchant's capital and professional merchants certainly exists, but they are subordinate to various feudal arrangements and there's not that much commodity production, i.e. what they sell is more surplus product and less stuff that has been produced for sale. Just look at the early history of the Hanseatic League, or this article for the Mediterranean case: web.stanford.edu/~avner/Greif_Pa ... 201989.pdf
What I'm proposing is a merchant (Companion character, I should think) who runs a (big) trading fleet with the covert help of Procella. I don't think that's so far fetched for a game about raising Atlantis 
This is not quite correct. Profit-making is a social taboo, yes, but the dynamics of capital have a tendency to encourage investment. If you don't do it, the other guy will, and you will lose out. That's part of the reason why you have the stories about greedy merchants and whatnot. Not squandering your wealth might make you look stingy (which shouldn't be a problem here, because profits will be higher than average with magical help and they run through the merchant anyway), but I think our cabal of secretive wizards has seen worse.
Kuiji Itijin:
I would prefer to abstract it in this manner. So 10% would mean 10 MP per 10 BP. Kuji's suggestion would give 20. I think it's reasonable to think Procella would make an above-average profit due to magic. But I would prefer it if Trogdor would just say a number and we abstract it with that. I think with the items it's unlikely that she would lose ships, but I could roll for botch every year or something.
then make the character and they will have the income described for that character social status in city and guild.
What doesn't exist at this time is corporate style investment where you only contribute money into an ongoing enterprise. Investment in a single trade mission is common, but the owner of the fleet is generally involved in the trade, usually taking 2 seasons a year to manage their company...