General Table Talk

Um, like a flashlight. If it is off, it activates when you turn it on.
But it appears you designed the object so that it cannot be turned off. So you would have to deactivate it in some tricky way: keep your parma up at sunrise, take it into a foreign aegis by sunset, smash the item, give it Range Touch and leave it off at sunset, and so on.
A better design choice for what you are seeking is D: Conc and Item Maintained Concentration.

I totally agree. But I was answering fightmaster's question, which postulated a 'Constant' item. Though, as you say, why anyone wouldn't just make it duration Conc., with the device maintaining concentration, I don't know. (Not to mention the whole issue of Warping with a Constant item.)

Sorry, some work.
Good news being, Wirth is almost finished, although I couldn't give him bat wings (creating from scratch a base 20, part spell is a little above his abilities :laughing: )

That's how I understand it, yes to both
The EF of the ease factor would vary from about 3 (generic changes, like "I want to become a redhead") to higher (specific changes, like "I want to take the face of Erat Caecus").

That's harder.
First, the easy one: You finesse roll when creating the disguise.
Then, I'd say that the effect, being permanent, becomes your new face forever, period. Although the mechanics works by using the trigger, there's no actual "triggering" at sunrise/sunset, the effect is actually only cast once and then just goes on seamlessly, for a truly "constant" effect. Makes for a nice curse or restorative chirurgy, though.

If you want to change the face, better have another duration.

This is yet one more case where constant duration is < to Concentration, maintains concentration. But as a quasi-HR, I'd make them "Hermetic Enchantments", harder to destroy than effects cast by items, and thus requiring a ritual to dispell (the second PeVi General Guideline, referencing HoH: TL p75). IIRC, that's used for Cutting the Cords, and seems appropriate here. Gives back some oomph to constant effect devices, too.

It's all about avoiding the flicker. My understanding, based on the books and a recent conversation between Marko and Fixer, is that items maintaining concentration 'flicker' at dawn and dusk, dropping the effect briefly before picking up concentration again. For something like this, a flicker in the wrong situation can be a serious problem. I'm probably better served inventing a spell with Moon duration and using Harnessed Magic to dismiss it when needed.

The comments do raise another point, though. A 'constant' item only affects you as long as you're wearing/using it. For example, if the disguise spell I described was enchanted into a ring, taking off the ring would mean the effect ended at the next dawn or dusk.

I agree about taking off the ring.

Here's another good question. What about an Im or Co spell designed to make someone looks specifically like one other person. Let's say Lucas wanted to create a ring that would let his shield grog become a body double to draw off danger. How should the Finesse roll be handled for that. It's not a simple case of casting the spell and whipping up an illusion of a particular face. This is a spell crafted over three months to specifically look like one person. Obviously Finesse enters into it. But it seems like the chance to get it right should be more than just a simple Finesse roll. Any thoughts?

FWIW, I'm not thinking of creating such a spell. This is just an intellectual exercise raised by the original question.

My opinions...
(for what they are worth)
If the disguise is static and constant, I would either wave at the Finesse roll or require it to be made when the item is made. Otherwise, I am a proponent of the wielder of the item making the Finesse roll. Seems natural. Say, for example, you had a want with "Invisible Sling of V". Aiming would require a Finesse roll on the part of the guy using the wand. Same for an enchanted flying broom.

FYI, I will be away from my computer from Friday through Monday for the US Memorial Day holiday. I'll have access via my iPad, but less frequently since I'm on vacation. My posts will also tend to be short. I'll be back on Tuesday.

No problem :smiley:

I was gonna answer, but agree perfectly with Marko.

btw, as promised:
andorra.wikidot.com/church-near-home

Sweet!!!

They are all upside down though :laughing:

Sorry I've been slower in posting, started a new job last Thursday...

Congratulations :smiley:

Jobs are more important.

Nice church. This kind are quite common in the Pyrenees and northern Catalonia. The blood altar/regio entrance is a very nice touch.

Okay, I have an absolutely ridiculous n00b question. Is there any reason at all (beyond redundancy) to create a personal ward spell that is less powerful than the magic resistance granted by your Parma? For instance, Solomon has a Parma of 5, which gives him 25 magic resistance (before adding in resistance from forms). So does it make sense to have a personal ward that is level 25 or less?

The one utility I see is he could then extend his Parma out to his shield grog but still be protected by his personal ward which would be more effective. Is there any other reason or situation where it would be useful to have the personal ward?

The reason I ask is I had planned on Solomon instilling a "Personal Ward vs Magic" into his talisman. In one season, the highest lab total for PeVi I can muster is 73 (with Mica's help). Which essentially translates into a personal ward versus magic realm creatures up to a might of 26, with a penetration of 26 with item maintained concentration and able to activate 3 times/day.

My question is, is it worth spending a season doing that when his Parma plus Ignem gives him a magic resistance of 30 against the genies, and Parma plus Vim would give him a 42 magic resistance against generic magic realm effects.

Personal wards have special rules in the saga. Have you checked them? They can grant soak as well as "thou shall not pass" effects, so it might be worthwhile to have them. Parma does not protect you vs mundane attacks/damage/ effects, while wards do.
Nice idea about sharing parma & wards. Never thought about it.

Okay, so a ward would stop a mundane sword being swung by a genie, for example? In that case, it may be worth it.

There are 2 kinds of personal wards in the saga IIRC. One works how you are saying (mundane sword stopped); this is how wards work in the RAW (except for Ward vs Heat & Flames). Another version adds to your soak vs that source of damage (metal); this is how ward vs heat & flames works, and the origin of the whole idea of this other kind of wards. More info in the house rules of Andorra.

Xavi

Right, but that distinction in the House Rules is for "Substance Wards". This would be a ward vs. creatures of magic might, so that's why I'm not sure. It would definitely stop a genies firebreath (assuming the ward was strong enough) or some other magical effect, but I'm not sure if it would stop a mundane arrow fired from a mundane bow by a genie (of the Magic realm).

If it doesn't then it doesn't seem to do anything different than magic resistance.

It is one or the other, not both. For material substance, it is a Soak bonus. For beings with Might, it is a "do not pass". And either way it works different than Parma Magica. Parma offers Magic Resistance, Wards do not. Parma Magica may offer resistance against the powers of a dragon, but cannot protect you fro getting chomped on. A Ward against Magic beings will block both powers and chomping, but only if it is a Magic dragon. An Infernal dragon will not be protected against. And no ward will block the spells of a human wizard (though the proper ward might offer a soak bonus)
I had elsewhere agreed with someone and made a comment about there being to many unused House Rules and additions from source books. But the Wards rule comes up often, and is one of the core originals.
For comparison and contrast (and clarification)...

  • Parma Magica: Offers resistance to spells and powers of all sources, but does not prevent a being or object from touching or hitting you. The exception is if the person or object has an active magical effect upon them/it. As a caveat to avoid the Pink Dot Loophole, just presume that trivial cosmetic effects that have no potential effect upon a target, directly or indirectly. This would include a pink dot, but not a sword disguised as a stick). Also exempt are people on Longevity, persons or items imbued with Warping, magic items with no active effects, and such. I don't want to house rule these exceptions because they are just common sense, and I may make fiat ruling if people seek clever ways to exploit loopholes such as this.
  • Substance Ward: This includes the Ward against Heat & Flames and effects of a similar design using different Forms. These provide a direct bonus to Soak (or other resistance roll) versus the substance encountered. Technically, you can design the wart to just keep the substance away from you altogether. But this creates headaches and limits you in several ways (a ward against wood prevents you from holding or touching wood, a ward against heat and fire would prevent you from getting warm, and so on).
  • Wards against Might Score: A Ward against creatures with a Might Score can work one of two ways, those affecting all creatures of a single Realm or Single Art (General Wards), or those specifically keyed to affect a category of beings that are a subset of both a Realm and Form (Specific Wards). Either way, the level of the ward must equal or exceed the being's Might Score.[list]
    [*]General Wards must Penetrate to have an effect, but may operate as a two way barrier. This is the way Wards work in RAW. Solomon's Ward against Magic is an example of such, protecting him from the powers of or physical contact by beings with a Magic Might score equal to or less than the level of the Wards protection. The Columbae of Ex-Miscellanea, in addition to other quriks, are able to craft wards to affect General Wards that affect all creatures that fut within a subset of a specific Form, regardless of Realm.
  • Specific Wards do not have to Penetrate in order to have an effect, so long as the level of protection equals or exceeds that beings Might Score and it falls within the specifics of the Ward. Realm, Form, and Subset must all be identified. For example, "Magic Jinn" (Magic/Ignem/Jinn), or Trolls & Giants (Magic/Corpus/Giants), or Evil Dead (Infernal/Corpus/Undead), or Woodland Gnomes & Elves (Faerie/Herbam/humanoids). Specific Wards also work only in one direction; keeping a thing out (Ward) or keeping a thing in (Binding)
  • Aegis of the Hearth: The Aegis wards against beings with a Might score, regardless of Form or Realm, as long as the level equals or exceeds the might score. It has other Magic Resistance effects as well. Most importantly, I do not require for it to Penetrate in order to have effect.
  • Form Scores: Your Form Score may offer limited Magic Resistance if you are caught without Parma, and is the only type of resistance that can be combined with Parma. It also provides a bonus to Soak versus damage from items covered by that Form, equal to one-fifth your score (round down). A lot of people forget about that. So do I. Let us call it optional.
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