Hogsmeade Tavern

[Trogdor]

@callen

Seamus's seasons don't match what you've said Alister is doing.

I copied them straight from the wiki. If they're off, it's because they were entered on the wiki improperly. IBT?

[Trogdor]

@callen

Beatrix and Lili will both study Latin under Alister.
Beatrix, Güunther, and Lily will all study Awareness under Alister.

That could be difficult. I assume she'll share her Parma with Alister, so his teaching won't suffer. But will the other students suffer in learning because she's in the class? I confess I'm not sure in that particular circumstance.

[callen]

Ah, good point. If it's a problem, I'll pull her out. There is plenty for her to study.

[Trogdor]

Do I understand consuming vis properly? The rules say:

Magic characters may also consume vis as a transformational study source, and can spend the experience points to gain new Qualities and Inferiorities, without subtracting its Might Score from the Advancement Total. The character must use a number of pawns of vis of any type equal to its Might Score. Then, roll a stress die and add the bonus for the aura in which the character studies. The result is the number of experience points gained. If you roll a 0, you must roll one botch die for every 5 pawns of vis that the character consumed, and each botch gives the character a Minor Inferiority, or a Major Inferiority for every three botches.

RoP:M p.52, emphasis added.

It looks like Günther is only eating half his Might (4) to gain the xp. Am I missing a rule somewhere? Shouldn't he have to consume 8 vis to get xp? I ask because I'm going to have Groot consume vis at some point.

[callen]

@Trogdor

It looks like Günther is only eating half his Might (4) to gain the xp. Am I missing a rule somewhere? Shouldn't he have to consume 8 vis to get xp? I ask because I'm going to have Groot consume vis at some point.

You don't have to consume any vis at all. But then he would get 4+2-8≤0 or 5+2-8≤0 experience (depending on practicing something new or practicing for improvement). Each pawn eaten reduces the penalty by 2. So by eating 4 pawns he can reduce the penalty to 0. Of course, this means Beatrix has spent 20 pawns of vis feeding Günther this year. As his Might starts increasing it will get even more expensive.

[callen]

Oh, I see. You're looking at the wrong thing. Look at Transformation via practice instead of the alternative.

Depending on the aura you're in, this alternative can be better. Generally I prefer the practice/adventure experience/etc. method.

[callen]

@callen

Ah, good point. If it's a problem, I'll pull her out. There is plenty for her to study.

I removed Beatrix from the study groups.

[Trogdor]

@callen

You don't have to consume any vis at all. But then he would get 4+2-8≤0 or 5+2-8≤0 experience (depending on practicing something new or practicing for improvement). Each pawn eaten reduces the penalty by 2. So by eating 4 pawns he can reduce the penalty to 0. Of course, this means Beatrix has spent 20 pawns of vis feeding Günther this year. As his Might starts increasing it will get even more expensive.

Hmm, this raises an interesting issue. I hadn't realized that magical beings could just practice to get xp in advancing Qualities (getting 5 xp/season, or basically a new Quality every other season). Consuming vis as a source gets more xp (Aura + Stress Die), but has the increasing chance of botching with increased vis consumed.

But, Peregrine has stated that familiars don't get a penalty for learning:

Familiars Only: Due to the nature of their Bond with their maga, a Familiar with a Might Score does not take the penalties to advancement that Magical characters normally suffer (Realms of Power: Magic, p. 52).
(http://lochness.wikidot.com/house-rules#toc22)

So if Günther were to practice, he would get 5+2=7 xp in advancing Qualities without needing to consume vis.

I'm not sure that's what Peregrine intended when he said that familiars don't suffer the Might Penalty. I tend to think that he was considering only the advancement of Abilities. As it stands now, familiars could rocket up in power without any real limitation, gaining 2 new Qualities in a single year (assuming they aren't assisting their master).

I wonder if the Might limitation ought to be kept for the purposes of advancing Qualities.

[Trogdor]

@callen

I removed Beatrix from the study groups.

I'm assuming that Alister would be willing to offer private lessons in one of his off-seasons for cash, if Bea was interested.

Of course that leads to the question of how much cash the magi have on hand. We go to great pains to track their vis. But we don't do the same for silver. Do we earn any silver for being members of the covenant, or is that on us?

[callen]

@Trogdor

But, Peregrine has stated that familiars don't get a penalty for learning...

And this is the official rule now. It showed up (perhaps implicitly, I can't remember) in a relatively recent supplement.

@Trogdor

So if Günther were to practice, he would get 5+2=7 xp in advancing Qualities without needing to consume vis.

No. Definitely not. The bond allows for learning Abilities better, not Transformation:

@ArM5 p.105

Familiars can learn Abilities in the same way as humans.

[callen]

@Trogdor

I'm assuming that Alister would be willing to offer private lessons in one of his off-seasons for cash, if Bea was interested.

I expect she'll end up doing that.

[callen]

@Trogdor

@callen

Tireless Servant
(As set forth in Covenants)
Commission Price: 4 Co vis (or equivalent) + 8 Vi vis[/list]

Beatrix will do this for him. She is quite happy to build her reputation as a great necromancer. Plus, she can do it in one season so the commission is reasonable - she does need to feed Günther. Once she has her lab she'll be extracting at 5 pawns/season, so picking up 4 pawns for a season of work isn't worth it. But if you have lab texts for multiple of the ReHe or ReTe things, doing two in a season would be worth her while.

The price was standard Verditius rates. So she'd get 12 vis total (4 Co to make the device and 8 Vi vis profit). So that's 8 pawns for a season of work.

Do note, you'll need to provide some skeletons, preferably devoid of ghosts.

[Trogdor]

@callen

Do note, you'll need to provide some skeletons, preferably devoid of ghosts.

Hmm, where does one get a skeleton?

I know, one asks one's grog to get one!

[callen]

@Trogdor

Hmm, where does one get a skeleton?

Find where someone was buried some years ago... Kill someone and clean up the mess...

[ironboundtome]

@callen

@Trogdor

I thought I copied and pasted everything exactly as it was. If I mixed something up, please correct it.

Seamus's seasons don't match what you've said Alister is doing.

I added Seamus in the wiki, assuming that if teaching is occurring then any could attend.
Who else is avail?

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Trogdor

Do I understand consuming vis properly? The rules say:

Magic characters may also consume vis as a transformational study source, and can spend the experience points to gain new Qualities and Inferiorities, without subtracting its Might Score from the Advancement Total. The character must use a number of pawns of vis of any type equal to its Might Score. Then, roll a stress die and add the bonus for the aura in which the character studies. The result is the number of experience points gained. If you roll a 0, you must roll one botch die for every 5 pawns of vis that the character consumed, and each botch gives the character a Minor Inferiority, or a Major Inferiority for every three botches.

RoP:M p.52, emphasis added.

It looks like Günther is only eating half his Might (4) to gain the xp. Am I missing a rule somewhere? Shouldn't he have to consume 8 vis to get xp? I ask because I'm going to have Groot consume vis at some point.

This falls under House Rule #1. In this case [technobabble]part of the bonding process between a Familiar and his Maga makes it easier for the familiar to learn and alleviates the need to consume vis for the information or training to "stick." [/technobabble] That rule from Realms of Power: Magic still holds for most beings of Magic, but not for Familiars.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Trogdor

I'm not sure that's what Peregrine intended when he said that familiars don't suffer the Might Penalty. I tend to think that he was considering only the advancement of Abilities. As it stands now, familiars could rocket up in power without any real limitation, gaining 2 new Qualities in a single year (assuming they aren't assisting their master).

I wonder if the Might limitation ought to be kept for the purposes of advancing Qualities.

Doesn't the Transformation stuff there apply to experience points gained (in the form of Vis, iirc) from adventures in the Magic Realm?

[jebrick]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Trogdor

Do I understand consuming vis properly? The rules say:

Magic characters may also consume vis as a transformational study source, and can spend the experience points to gain new Qualities and Inferiorities, without subtracting its Might Score from the Advancement Total. The character must use a number of pawns of vis of any type equal to its Might Score. Then, roll a stress die and add the bonus for the aura in which the character studies. The result is the number of experience points gained. If you roll a 0, you must roll one botch die for every 5 pawns of vis that the character consumed, and each botch gives the character a Minor Inferiority, or a Major Inferiority for every three botches.

RoP:M p.52, emphasis added.

It looks like Günther is only eating half his Might (4) to gain the xp. Am I missing a rule somewhere? Shouldn't he have to consume 8 vis to get xp? I ask because I'm going to have Groot consume vis at some point.

This falls under House Rule #1. In this case [technobabble]part of the bonding process between a Familiar and his Maga makes it easier for the familiar to learn and alleviates the need to consume vis for the information or training to "stick." [/technobabble] That rule from Realms of Power: Magic still holds for most beings of Magic, but not for Familiars.

Shouldn't the bonus in learning be for skills their magus has. All other skills should be bought the same way as RoP:M.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Trogdor

Of course that leads to the question of how much cash the magi have on hand. We go to great pains to track their vis. But we don't do the same for silver. Do we earn any silver for being members of the covenant, or is that on us?

Yes, you do. After 1220, by my reckoning, we had £164 surplus, and £350 on hand. Even with the slight downturn with the fishing in 1221, Insula Canaria is in pretty good shape.

I don't want (or see a need) to micromanage the mundane economy. IC is in pretty good shape, financially, and can afford 'most anything as long as you don't splurge for that solid-gold Olympic-szed swimming pool.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@jebrick

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

This falls under House Rule #1. In this case [technobabble]part of the bonding process between a Familiar and his Maga makes it easier for the familiar to learn and alleviates the need to consume vis for the information or training to "stick." [/technobabble] That rule from Realms of Power: Magic still holds for most beings of Magic, but not for Familiars.

Shouldn't the bonus in learning be for skills their magus has. All other skills should be bought the same way as RoP:M.

No. P. 105 of the main rulebook says that "Familiars can learn Abilities in the same way as humans." It doesn't limit it to abilities that the magus has, or learning abilities at the same time as the magus does.