Hogsmeade Tavern

[callen]

Seeing as someone else was considering a Failed Apprentice or similar, I was looking into my suggestion of an UnGifted Learned Magician. Then I double-checked the books. It looks like HMRE is fine but A&A is out, and A&A has all the stuff for experimental philosophy and medicine, the big part of the concept. So that suggestion is out. I'll debate some other companion ideas.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

I'm fine if you want to disallow it. It is open to the same sorts of strong use as mMF animal categories, other mMF materials, etc.

As for it's scope, I would strongly disagree. If we look at just the MuAu stuff, air is only one of many things. Look at the example spells; only one of the five would qualify at all. Air doesn't include clouds, fog, rain, lightning, smoke, and other gases except to transform them into air. Of all the other MuFo stuff, MuFo(Au) specifically to air is an extremely small subset. So all of that is well under half the size of MuAu. The only CrAu I can think of is creating a single type of air elemental. InAu, PeAu, and ReAu would only work on transformed air and so would only apply in the lab when making extremely limited spells or apply when casting a less limited spell on a very small subset of things. Compare this to other listed mMF's. Wood. Transform anything into wood, transform wood into anything, create wood, detect/investigate wood (need not be transformed but could be), destroy wood (need not be transformed but could be), move/control wood (need not be transformed but could be). That's a significantly greater portion of Herbam than transmuted air is of Auram. Another one: wind. That's moving air, so air with a qualifier, and so is pretty comparable. Others: rain and lightning. They're not as omnipresent, but in terms of the fraction of Auram available they'r much broader.

As for worries, it's comparable to a lot of other things. mMF in wood, for example, can be used even more broadly. Turn things into wood and do whatever with them, or turn wood into things and do whatever with them, or just do whatever with wood directly. My suggestion only fits the first two of those three. That's not to say I cannot think of plenty of ways to use it well. Rather, it's that I can think of as many ways to use many canon examples of mMF similarly well. So, as I said, I'm fine with it being disallowed. I would guess that you would also disallow half the canon examples as well, right?

I'm inclined to allow it, but I'm still fuzzy as to whether this allows you to transmute air into something else (i.e. a block of stone) or just transform it from one form of air into another. It sounds to me like the latter.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

A question that does come up is if we allow non-traditional familiars. For example, HoH:MC suggests plant familiars for some Criamon magi. Would other (not traditional animals) non-intelligent magical beings be OK? In this case, I'm particularly thinking about air elementals. I like the flavor that comes with it. Of course, these are somewhat self-limiting because high-might elementals are extraordinarily large, making the required lab totals for binding them become extraordinarily high.

I have no problem with that. Could be fun...or interesting.

[Quite_Possibly_a_Cat]

I'm gonna re-ask this here because I know my eyes glaze over the first few posts of character sheets with the "reserved blah blah blah" stuff. Can we start with a familiar bound? And if so what guidelines should we use?

On that note I'm not thinking of a learned magician. unGifted probably. Their magical AND learned. The Order is a perfect place for them to live and they probably have valuable skills for the Order. Perfect fit.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Quite Possibly a Cat

I'm gonna re-ask this here because I know my eyes glaze over the first few posts of character sheets with the "reserved blah blah blah" stuff. Can we start with a familiar bound? And if so what guidelines should we use?

Sorry. Yes, you can start with a Familiar. It will take two seasons of your development (one to track down and befriend the Familiar, and one to actually Bond it.) Might be best to do that in your last year of development, to get the best lab total you can.

As far as guidelines: use the normal rules for making a (presumably) magical creature, which are kind of all over the place: the main rulebook, Realms of Power: Magic, Houses of Hermes: Mystery Cults, the Book of Mundane Beasts download, and the 4th edition Medieval Bestiary Revised (for stats on animals that aren't covered in 5th edition; in case of conflict, 5th Ed stats will out).

[Bitter]

I'll probably make a tortoiseshell lineage cat.

edit : as a familiar ofc.

[callen]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

I'm inclined to allow it, but I'm still fuzzy as to whether this allows you to transmute air into something else (i.e. a block of stone) or just transform it from one form of air into another. It sounds to me like the latter.

Yes, turning air into something would count. Again, I'm fine with it not being allowed so long as I know that is the plan for such mMF's.

I'm still debating the Auram-style character I had in mind versus a necromancer. I actually found an historical figure around this time who was thought to be into necromancy and so have rekindled some thoughts in that direction. I think it's cool when you can tie things in really well that way.

[callen]

[strike]I found this note on Wikipedia when reading about Yester Castle:

...Sir Hugo de Giffard. A grandson of the first Laird of Yester, he served as a guardian of the young Alexander III of Scotland, and was by repute a magician and necromancer...

I'm coming up with back-story quickly with this guy as her parens, which means moving away from House Mercere to Ex Miscellanea. Still definitely a Re/Vi-focused character as stated, just doing the necromancy thing instead of the Auram thing. This also avoids the troubles with the questions about the focus and familiar above. Everyone should be happy... if necromancy doesn't bother you. I have been considering Rigid Magic strongly at the same time, which would mean she doesn't start with a level-50 Aegis of the Hearth.

Edit: It seems the link on Wikipedia is incorrect due to a whole bunch having the same name. It looks like it was the son of the one linked who started Yester Castle and was known for necromancy. Still, I think I can rework some bits of this to keep things relatively close to what's written while retaining what I've come up with.[/strike]

Eh. Things started feeling a little abusive and less clear in direction. But I want to avoid the issues with Auram from above. I really liked the Mercere stuff I was planning before since that got her heavily involved with other magi. The children also make an interesting other piece. But I need a different piece. I had been debating raptors, and it looks like that would be different than Jebrick's dogs, etc. Plus I really wouldn't be focused on Animal, more on the Muto, Rego, and Vim I've always been planning.
[hr][/hr]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Sorry. Yes, you can start with a Familiar. It will take two seasons of your development (one to track down and befriend the Familiar, and one to actually Bond it.) Might be best to do that in your last year of development, to get the best lab total you can.

OK. Good to know. A few other things that would be relevant:

1. Can they start advancing once they've been bound?
2. What season, spring?
3. Are there Might limits, or just what can be bound? I'll warn you that that limit could be 40-45. I suppose others could go higher with really small familiars, but I'm talking about Size 0.
   [hr][/hr]Also, I saw the thread about home-made spells. Good to have one. Should we bother with spells that are just R/D/T-adjusted versions of standard spells?

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

Sorry. Yes, you can start with a Familiar. It will take two seasons of your development (one to track down and befriend the Familiar, and one to actually Bond it.) Might be best to do that in your last year of development, to get the best lab total you can.

OK. Good to know. A few other things that would be relevant:

1. Can they start advancing once they've been bound?
2. What season, spring?
3. Are there Might limits, or just what can be bound? I'll warn you that that limit could be 40-45. I suppose others could go higher with really small familiars, but I'm talking about Size 0.

I actually added a line about familiars to the CharGen page on the wiki. Basically, the familiar should be Spring or Summer characters, either Grog or Companion Level. It would be able to advance once bonded, and would use the advancement rules in the Main Rulebook and not in Realms of Power: Magic (which impose a penalty equal to the Might Score on advancement totals).

Oh, and the limit on Might for the familiar would be what you can bind with your Lab Total (p. 104, MRB).

@callen

Also, I saw the thread about home-made spells. Good to have one. Should we bother with spells that are just R/D/T-adjusted versions of standard spells?

No, just note on your Character Sheet that the spell is basically Spell of Incredible Awesomeness with the Duration reduced to Concentration or whatever.

[Jonathan.Link]

I'm posting from my phone and don't have RoP:Magic on it, but I think the might level being the limit and saying that they are spring or summer grog or companion level characters are inconsistent. Companion power summer is might 20, IIRC.

[callen]

@Jonathan.Link

I'm posting from my phone and don't have RoP:Magic on it, but I think the might level being the limit and saying that they are spring or summer grog or companion level characters are inconsistent. Companion power summer is might 20, IIRC.

Spring/Summer sets experience, not Might. Companion tops at MM25 regardless of season (before potentially buying Improved Might). Summer's cap is 360 experience.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Jonathan.Link

I'm posting from my phone and don't have RoP:Magic on it, but I think the might level being the limit and saying that they are spring or summer grog or companion level characters are inconsistent. Companion power summer is might 20, IIRC.

The chart on p. 34 does have levels, but the text above it calls them "guidelines." So, it could be, say, a Companion-level character in a Low-power saga would have around 5 Might (could be 3, could be 7).

But, yeah, let's go with 5/15 for the Grog/Companion base Might.

[callen]

Yes, starting well in advance and posting stuff you're getting to see some of the inner workings going on in my head.

I figured out what was bothering me with the necromancy idea despite liking a lot of it. First, I was going too broad: both physical and ghosts. Second, I felt compelled to be too obsessive with ReVi alongside Summoning and felt like I was getting abusive (binding total in the mid-60s straight out of gauntlet, for example; also ex Miscellanea always feels that way to me). Third, I liked some of the Mercere stuff I'd thought of. But when I tried another route I found myself returning to bits of the necromancer. So I should keep the necromancer but remain more focused. My plan is to focus on corpses only, forgoing ghosts, skeletons, and other parts of necromancy. That keeps it as a Minor Magical Focus and still ties into Rego well.

I am planning to have her create her own familiar (essentially a revenant but a magical animal, not a human). I think it's a worthy goal, a short-term one though a difficult one. That means she'll have to pull off a pretty high-level CrAn(Vi) spell. It also means she needs to be able to do rituals so she's going to be learning Aegis of the Hearth.

[callen]

How many BP does it take to buy an Object of Virtue? The Vis alone is worth a fraction of a BP, so I cannot see the Object of Virtue being under 2 BP. 2 BP is probably reasonable, but I don't want to assume you all agree with me on that.

Also, I know amber is only semi-precious. I'm guessing turquoise is precious, pretty sure it's not priceless having seen how it was used. I'm hoping it comes in as semi-precious because I won't get to MT 8, but I expect I'm out of luck on that one.

[callen]

Cannonball, I figured I would ask if you have the pages in reserve that you want before I comment. Philosophic Alchemy rocks, btw!

[Cannonball]

@callen

Cannonball, I figured I would ask if you have the pages in reserve that you want before I comment. Philosophic Alchemy rocks, btw!

Post away! My character stuff is going to be housed solely on the wiki. The thread will be for discussion only, so I don't actually need to reserve any space. And yes, the alchemy does look fun! Now, if only I had a clear picture of Blair's magic...I can't seem to decide what she should have at all.

She's coming across plenty clear as a character, mind. Even how she works in the lab, and gets along with everyone else. Just the actual spell slingery isn't coming to me right now.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@callen

How many BP does it take to buy an Object of Virtue? The Vis alone is worth a fraction of a BP, so I cannot see the Object of Virtue being under 2 BP. 2 BP is probably reasonable, but I don't want to assume you all agree with me on that.

I know I've heard of this, but I'm drawing a blank on where. A quick search of redcap.org, Andorra, and the Mystery Cults pdf doesn't help. Where is this from?

[callen]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@callen

How many BP does it take to buy an Object of Virtue? The Vis alone is worth a fraction of a BP, so I cannot see the Object of Virtue being under 2 BP. 2 BP is probably reasonable, but I don't want to assume you all agree with me on that.

I know I've heard of this, but I'm drawing a blank on where. A quick search of redcap.org, Andorra, and the Mystery Cults pdf doesn't help. Where is this from?

It's in RoP:M, starting on p.124.

[callen]

@callen

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@callen

How many BP does it take to buy an Object of Virtue? The Vis alone is worth a fraction of a BP, so I cannot see the Object of Virtue being under 2 BP. 2 BP is probably reasonable, but I don't want to assume you all agree with me on that.

I know I've heard of this, but I'm drawing a blank on where. A quick search of redcap.org, Andorra, and the Mystery Cults pdf doesn't help. Where is this from?

It's in RoP:M, starting on p.124.

Peregrine Bjornaer, any thoughts on this? For clarity, this would be prior to being enriched that I'm talking about. The enriching process would still require seasonal work and appropriate scores.

[jebrick]

There are things I like about Donnchadh Dubh and things I like about Corvus so I think I will try to combine them into a Merinita who is a highlander from the local clan.