horses immune to the gift

I'd like to introduce horses into the game, raised at a covenant withiin a regio that grants them immunity to the negative effects of the gift. These horses are up for "sale" for a straight Vis trade.

Anyone have this in their saga? How much is a realistic price?

If the regio grants them this immunity and not some magical characteristic of the horses themselves, wouldn't they become sensitive to the Gift as soon as they left the regio?

If not, they would surely be coveted mounts within the order and quite pricey I should think. What sort of horses are they? Palfrys (riding horses), Warhorses or Draft Horses?

In my saga, the PCs recevied the service of some semi-magical horses who will put up with the gift. These are stocky white ponies from the marshes of the Camargue. The pace is still known for its white ponies. The PCs killed a beast that was preying on the herd and recieved the service of four ponies from King Equeus, the herd's ruler.

Not war horses, I gave each tolerance to the gift and one special talent (Running on still water, silent hooves, great endurance and speech).

Boxer, I rationalize that the source of the tolerance is growing up in a high magical aura, therefore the Gift doesn't bother them.

If I am wrong in my rationale, let me know.

I've already introduced the idea that these horses are for sale, but didn't give them a price.

On hindsight, I wish I would have sculpted an adventure around the idea like the white ponies, above. It came about because one of our mages really wants a mount, and I indicated they were for sale. Alas....

Well you are the SG so whatever you decide (within logical limits I suppose) you can rationalise is what works for your saga. I suppose a high enough aura could have warped the horses such that they tolerate the Gift, especially over generations.

Still dont know what sort of price to suggest since I still dont know what sort of horses you are talking about.

serf's parma, but isn't there a spell in the books to make a horse immune to the gift? What would be the ritual amount of Vis needed to create this horse in the lab?

I can easily do the math at home, but I was mainly wondering if anyone out there had already introduced this in their saga and what they'd "charged."


There are three spells actually. One is The Beast of Vengeance (MuAn 35) for making a fearsome battle-ready mount. This requires a successful stamina roll of 9+ for the animal after the spell wears off though, or else the horse dies of system shock.

The other is The Gentle Beast (ReAn 25), but the creature cannot be used for combat with this spell, only riding.

the other one I forgot about originally was the Level 35 CrAn spell The Wizard's Mount. Only lasts for sun duration.

None of these are rituals though, only formulaic spells. I think you are talking about level 50+ CrAn(Vi) rituals to create mythic beasts from scratch. As with all rituals you would need 1 pawn for every 5 levels of the ritual (in this case, at least 10 pawns of Cr/An/Vi or other requisite vis depending on additional powers you wished to give it).

As for price, again I reiterate, what breed of horse are we talking about here?

One thought that does spring to mind is to use the Verditius measure for enchantment prices. The full cost of the Vis used in the enchantment (ritual) plus two times that cost personally to the magus who invents the creature. Base price (without special powers) 10 vis for the ritual + 20 for the magus' time and effort = 30 pawns.

thanks boxer,

Sorry, riding horse.

I was thinking something along the order of "The Gentle Beast," and yes, was going to use the Verditius charge rules.

Well for some general ideas on prices, this interesting a fairly informative all purpose 13th Century glossary is quite handy... ... ossary.pdf

Particularly look at the entry for "Destrier" (expensive warhorse) and then go to page 11 for the entries on "Prices" (note typical Knight's wages) and a bit further down the entry for "Rouncy" (actually spelled Rouncey).

The Rouncey and the Palfrey were the two principal riding horse types. The Palfrey was the more refined and typically better bred of the two but arguably was less capable for combat riding than the general purpose Rouncey.

If you are going to charge Vis for the horse(s) then stick to the previous suggestion, but if coin is desired, this will give you further food for thought.

[Edited to add]: There is also of course the extensive reference doc called "The Giant Medieval Pricelist" which even provides monetary types and values for a wide range of goods and services. Much like the C&G book I suppose, but I don't have that book so I use these external references as my guide.

Ah, but how can he ride it? Maybe he needs the saddle that a faeire has...or maybe it eats Vis...requires magical grass, gets sick, requiring said magus to develope a healing spell for the horse....
Of course there are the magical horse shoes that the Verditius mage has...but won't sell...

You can have a lot of fun, and 'pay back' the simple aquisition of the horse...


LOL! Someone is in a wicked mood tonight! :wink:

Nice story seeds though! :smiley:

Further story seeds (I love this, and it's not very hard either):

Make it difficult for him to buy them! Just because he heard they were up for sale, doesn't mean it will be a piece of cake.
Someone may beat him to the horses, at buy them all just before he gets there. Or it might turn into an auction. He must have a rival or enemy, who might do this, just for spite. Even if he didn't think he HAD en enemy, someone might feel stepped on, by actions wholly without malice from the PC, but never the less spoiled projects or plans for this new enemy.
Have the Church muck this up. If the horses might seem alluring to mundanes, due to quality etc. a Nobe or Churchman might turn up to look at them. And y seeing that the strange, eerie people, who give THEM the wiggins, don't seem to worry the horses...well, then the horses must be infernal or posessed or whatever! And they're not just making this up on the spot, because they lost the auction!
Perhaps the PC gets a better offer on the way, or while examining those horses. A rival "merchant" sells better horses cheaper. All things point to them being better, but the PC is somehow swindled. The horses might just have a Dur:Sun spell on them, altered by MuAn or MuIm and really be donkeys or old, run down draft horses. They might be Faerie or Infernal horses, with the ability to mask true nature, and once relied upon and trusted, they turn on the owner.

By all means drop a line or two here, about how it goes. All stories are intersting, all inspirations is welcome.

Momentary Permanent Ritual version of these spells would have a lower level, but cost vis, which could serve as a base guideline.

Using the Gentle Beast and verditius guidelines, this would cost 4 + 2*4 = 12 pawns.
I'd make it slightly higher since the horses won't be as limited as Gentled ones (even if you still want quiet ones), say, 15 pawns.

Of course, this could go up with demand.

Why are we using verditius guidelines for a ritual?

My character is actually planning on creating some horses, and then try to breed the 1st couple pair to pass on the traits. 1st version will be a normal horse not bothered by the gift, 2nd will be increased stats, 3rd will be a magical creature that has might and powers to activate.

On the first part I agree. Making The Gentle Beast into a momentary/permanent ritual would bring it down to a mere level 15 and require only 3 pawns of Vis to complete. Go one better and get other covenant magi to take part by first casting Wizard's Communion and you could conceivably cast it as a level 3-5 spell (wOOt)! for only 1 pawn of vis. That is supposing you get 3-5 magi to agree (for covenant income shouldnt be too hard) and get a combined Communion level of 30 or more (also not too hard).

With regard to your second point, your maths are off if you are suggesting a ritual cost. Base cost without Wiz Comm would be 3 + 2*3 = 9 pawns. However, being shrewd and greedy magi, you simply dont divulge to prospective buyers the true initial investment (certainly not if using Wiz Comm to drop the spell level/vis investment to rock bottom).

You tell interested buyers that it cost the full 4 pawns and charge the full 12. Now THAT is how to make a real profit! :wink:

We're not using Verditius guidelines for the ritual, we're using them for the calculated price in vis to charge prospective buyers (magi presumably).

Throw in a saddle custom enchanted with ReCo(An) for each (likely many) magus who has no riding ability (to create a link to the mind of the horse to give the rider an instinctual understanding of how best to direct the mount) and you can make a bundle of vis from across the Order. :wink:

Rituals are always at least level 20. :wink:

Ah yes, my bad (apologies Fixer). Even still, with four magi and wizard's comm at level 10 each (total 40) the ritual could be done as if it were a 5th level spell for the 1 pawn of vis I suggested previously.

It is as good as any to determine something's price.
If he finds it too much, he can lower it, although, such animals needing proper care for years and being unable or difficult to find elsewhere, it is probably not overestimated.

Oh yes, I like it :smiling_imp:
This is a good way for a poor covenant of collaborative Magi-PCs to make some vis :smiley:

No... you only reduce the target number of the spell, not its actual level![/b]